London

Comrades
It appears that the census data now shows that "white Britons" are now the minority in London,How does this effect us as social nationalist,Patriotic socialists,ethnic socialist ect ect ?.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20677515

My feelings on the issue are that the globalist bourgeois now have for decades allowed mass migration to our nation for the simple reasons of dividing the working class and driving down wages and castrateing the indigenous working class.A mix of Capitalist greed and cosmopolitan Utopianism have succeeded in makeing our nations capital the first divided (and therefore more exploitable) city in Western Europe and will surely be the blue print for other cities worldwide,at the expense of us,our family and every indigenous population worldwide.

The solution of course is a complete stop to immigration until the current immigrant population had either been integrated into our society or they have had the opportunity to form their own autonomous community's.

Also the fact the Cosmo lefts,the media as well as the general populations head in the sand approach to this issues perplexes me slightly,are the other party's really going to allow the reactionarys to be the only people addressing this issue?.

As socialists of varying national tendancys how do issues like this effect us?.
Discuss

It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Care to elaborate?

Red Aegis wrote:It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Are you sure it wouldnt if you lived in London?

Mass immigration prevents revolutions in the so-called third world, it lowers wages and creates a divided and hostile to each other working class in the so-called first world. Multi-culturalism is failing as far as ordinary people are concerned in the UK- which is why you have seen the radicalization of the Muslims here who are far, far more radical than their parents or grandparents.

The last thing I want is a race war or race riots. We need to find a rational and just way out of the mess we are in- and PC slogans are not going to do that.

I disagree with wulf about some things but I understand where he is coming from. I dont have any easy solutions to these questions and frankly Im weary of people who do whether they are on stormfront or revleft.

Working class communities need to form links and deal with problems between themselves. The white English working class need to organize themselves. All easier said than done.

Paradosis wrote:

Red Aegis wrote:It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Are you sure it wouldnt if you lived in London?

Yes, also cute downvote.

Mass immigration prevents revolutions in the so-called third world, it lowers wages and creates a divided and hostile to each other working class in the so-called first world. Multi-culturalism is failing as far as ordinary people are concerned in the UK- which is why you have seen the radicalization of the Muslims here who are far, far more radical than their parents or grandparents.

I have said such in other threads if you had bothered to read the threads you posted on.

The last thing I want is a race war or race riots. We need to find a rational and just way out of the mess we are in- and PC slogans are not going to do that.

Then stop bringing race into it. The issue is that the bourgeoisie is benefiting by putting workers of different nations against each other, either by off-shoring or by supporting policies allowing immigration if they find it useful.

I disagree with wulf about some things but I understand where he is coming from. I dont have any easy solutions to these questions and frankly Im weary of people who do whether they are on stormfront or revleft.

Who said that I take such a simplistic view? You have clearly not read my inputs to any of the threads relevant to this topic even though you have posted in those very threads.

Red Aegis wrote:It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Thats a very simplistic comment.

Paradosis wrote:

Red Aegis wrote:It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Thats a very simplistic comment.

The sentence was short. The reasoning is not. I could go into it but am out right now. Try to be patient.

TheocWulf wrote:Comrades
How does this effect us as social nationalist,Patriotic socialists,ethnic socialist ect ect ?.

Hopefully, no one outside of our OV section falls into such categories.

With respect to the demographic developments in your country, it should not come as a surprise to anyone, nor should it function as a barrier to working class solidarity.

Admin wrote:

TheocWulf wrote:Comrades
How does this effect us as social nationalist,Patriotic socialists,ethnic socialist ect ect ?.

Hopefully, no one outside of our OV section falls into such categories.

With respect to the demographic developments in your country, it should not come as a surprise to anyone, nor should it function as a barrier to working class solidarity.

Isnt this forum supposed to be for revolutionary socialists AND left-wing nationalists?

Wouldnt social nationalists and patriotic socialists at least fall into the catergory of left-wing nationalists?

Admin wrote:

TheocWulf wrote:Comrades
How does this effect us as social nationalist,Patriotic socialists,ethnic socialist ect ect ?.

Hopefully, no one outside of our OV section falls into such categories.

With respect to the demographic developments in your country, it should not come as a surprise to anyone, nor should it function as a barrier to working class solidarity.

With all due respect, do you understand the situation in Britain at all? The effect of mass immigration crisis that we are currently undergoing has little to do with "working class solidarity". The immigrants that arrive here have come looking for work, and are not interested in seeing themselves as part of the British working-class if it conflicts with the economic needs of them, their dependants or the employer. They show little "working class solidarity" when they replace the indigenous working-class, so why should we?

Paradosis wrote:
Isnt this forum supposed to be for revolutionary socialists AND left-wing nationalists?

Wouldnt social nationalists and patriotic socialists at least fall into the catergory of left-wing nationalists?

Except when they are deemed to be reactionary, which seems to cover anyone from Britain, comrade.

Paradosis wrote:Isnt this forum supposed to be for revolutionary socialists AND left-wing nationalists?

Wouldnt social nationalists and patriotic socialists at least fall into the catergory of left-wing nationalists?

That depends entirely on how one chooses to define 'social nationalism', 'patriotic socialism', etc. More often than not, such labels are employed as a simple euphemism for fascism or other expressions of reactionary nationalism. Left-wing nationalism, on the other hand, is based on a very specific framework.

Isakenaz wrote:With all due respect, do you understand the situation in Britain at all? The effect of mass immigration crisis that we are currently undergoing has little to do with "working class solidarity".

Nowhere in my concise response did I suggest that the effects of mass immigration were based upon working class solidarity. (I don't even know what the fuck you mean by that.) I merely opined that, as socialists, we should not allow such demographic developments to function as a barrier to said solidarity.

The immigrants that arrive here have come looking for work, and are not interested in seeing themselves as part of the British working-class if it conflicts with the economic needs of them, their dependants or the employer.

There is nothing unique about this dynamic. The question is how we, as socialists, address such developments. It should go without saying that we should not blame the immigrants collectively, nor refuse to pursue what is in our mutual (class) interest.

They show little "working class solidarity" when they replace the indigenous working-class, so why should we?

Again, I never suggested that any party involved in the imposition of foreign labor was demonstrating working class solidarity. I really have no idea how you were able to jump to so many absurd conclusions, based upon my brief comment. (I suspect you simply felt the urge to disparage this forum yet again.)

Except when they are deemed to be reactionary, which seems to cover anyone from Britain, comrade.

Enough with your trolling, Isa.

Red Aegis wrote:

Paradosis wrote:

Red Aegis wrote:It doesn't effect me at all and likely wouldn't if I were from London anyway.

Thats a very simplistic comment.

The sentence was short. The reasoning is not. I could go into it but am out right now. Try to be patient.

There is reasoning and there is reality.

Here in Dublin I can go anywhere that normal dubs can go, I can even go to dissident Republican pubs and be open about my background and as long as Im not an asshole Im safe. Its a very, very different story in Belfast and all the wishful thinking on my part wont change that. Racial tensions in London and no go areas for whites and people of colour or whatever term you want to use effect people regardless.

The interesting question of course is why would the migrant population risk joining with the indigenous working class when they wrongly believe they are onto a winner financially and in some cases socially?.

They have something to lose whilst we have everything to gain,how do we change that outlook?.

Paradosis wrote:
There is reasoning and there is reality.

Unless you suggest abandoning logic that statement had no meaning, nor would it if you did.

Here in Dublin I can go anywhere that normal dubs can go, I can even go to dissident Republican pubs and be open about my background and as long as Im not an asshole Im safe. Its a very, very different story in Belfast and all the wishful thinking on my part wont change that. Racial tensions in London and no go areas for whites and people of colour or whatever term you want to use effect people regardless.

Racial tensions may exist but they should not be encouraged or given credence in any situation except for trying to get rid of them.

Red Aegis wrote:

Paradosis wrote:
There is reasoning and there is reality.

Unless you suggest abandoning logic that statement had no meaning, nor would it if you did.

Racial tensions may exist but they should not be encouraged or given credence in any situation except for trying to get rid of them.

Yes it does have a meaning, its easy to reason about situations abstractly but when you are in them they tend to be pretty different.

Who here was encouraging racial tensions? What do you mean by give them credence?

The racial/ethnic side of the situation doesn't bother me enough to shit my pants over it, but the cultural side does bother me when I long to see Christmas lights up at this time of year but instead see the local newsagent crowded by children in mosque clothing after a prayer session. I'd also love to be able to go and get a haircut around the other side of the block without needing a translator to tell the barber what I want because he can't speak English even though he's lived here for over five years.

As for employment, the word alone makes my brain shut off and go into hibernation.

DSN wrote:The racial/ethnic side of the situation doesn't bother me enough to shit my pants over it, but the cultural side does bother me when I long to see Christmas lights up at this time of year but instead see the local newsagent crowded by children in mosque clothing after a prayer session. I'd also love to be able to go and get a haircut around the other side of the block without needing a translator to tell the barber what I want because he can't speak English even though he's lived here for over five years.

As for employment, the word alone makes my brain shut off and go into hibernation.

With the above in mind do you think you can solve London's problems without addressing the ethno cultural issues with Socialism alone,I mean its not like you can forcibly make people follow our culture and bang up Christmas Trees is it.

TheocWulf wrote:
With the above in mind do you think you can solve London's problems without addressing the ethno cultural issues with Socialism alone,I mean its not like you can forcibly make people follow our culture and bang up Christmas Trees is it.

Well obviously not, but you can't forcibly make people live in autonomous communities either. There are certain areas of London with a high enough concentration of immigrants to basically make a Pakistani version of Chinatown, but in between that and the English people of England there are largely mixed areas whose populations (for the most part) have no real preference for one culture or the next.

DSN wrote:

TheocWulf wrote:
With the above in mind do you think you can solve London's problems without addressing the ethno cultural issues with Socialism alone,I mean its not like you can forcibly make people follow our culture and bang up Christmas Trees is it.

Well obviously not, but you can't forcibly make people live in autonomous communities either. There are certain areas of London with a high enough concentration of immigrants to basically make a Pakistani version of China Town, but in between that and the English people of England there are largely mixed areas whose populations (for the most part) have no real preference for one culture or the next.

Touché,We'll we live and hope for a day when people can be culturally and/or ethnically defined by either being us or them by the boundrys they live in.