Why Care About Politics and Society?

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well there would be government in a socialist society and that could ( and would) prey on those it ruled over. Socialism might solve the economic headaches of people but I dont see how it would stop the state from being a dickhead.

If the state runs on direct democracy (and of course representational democracy where it is needed), how will the state act like a dickhead? "Hey guys, let's all take away our own privileges!"

Yeah sure there's anarchist socialism but Im pretty sure those guys want direct democracy, which is government ( no matter how much they like to split hairs), which puts everything back at square one.

How does that put everything back to square one? Arguing a point by simply using the terms 'government' and 'state' doesn't mean much. What do you think direct democracy is?

DSN wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well there would be government in a socialist society and that could ( and would) prey on those it ruled over. Socialism might solve the economic headaches of people but I dont see how it would stop the state from being a dickhead.

If the state runs on direct democracy (and of course representational democracy where it is needed), how will the state act like a dickhead? "Hey guys, let's all take away our own privileges!"

Yeah sure there's anarchist socialism but Im pretty sure those guys want direct democracy, which is government ( no matter how much they like to split hairs), which puts everything back at square one.

How does that put everything back to square one? Arguing a point by simply using the terms 'government' and 'state' doesn't mean much. What do you think direct democracy is?

Sure the majority of people wouldnt make it hard on themselves but they could make it hard on the minority of people. I mean the many lording over the few isnt any worse than the other way around.


Well anarchist socialists might pretend that they want to get rid of government but from what Ive seen they are only playing word games. Direct democracy is what it is ( you know the majority of people making decisions without representatives) and it sure as hell is a type of government.

Rebbel Warrior I think you are completely missing the point. The state is currently the establishment operated for the purpose of profit. It is socially divisive and encourages unnecessary competition, exploitation and war. Only by destroying the state as it exists today and replacing it with one whereby ultimate authority rests with the people and communities, can we end the social, environmental and economic injustices the world faces.

Re 'people will still be preyed upon' - this would simply not be the case if there was recall amongst the people for any politician who was not acting in the interests of the people.

Modgardener wrote:Rebbel Warrior I think you are completely missing the point. The state is currently the establishment operated for the purpose of profit. It is socially divisive and encourages unnecessary competition, exploitation and war. Only by destroying the state as it exists today and replacing it with one whereby ultimate authority rests with the people and communities, can we end the social, environmental and economic injustices the world faces.

Re 'people will still be preyed upon' - this would simply not be the case if there was recall amongst the people for any politician who was not acting in the interests of the people.

What I was going on about with the preyed thing was that the majority of people could make life suck for the minority. Which couldnt be solved by recall cause the bad guys would be most of the voters.

Also writing the state is operated for profit is just making things way too simple. I mean the state does a lot of things that have nothing to do with profit and all with just being a group of dickheads ( like fining people for drinking in the streets) for example. The problems with authority, the economy. society, etc are too complex to be solved by one idea. Thats one major reason why all ideologies fail. They try to make everything much simpler then it actually is and then yell out loud that they are the solution. The Holy Fucking Messiah. And in the end they get nowhere ( if they even rise up off the ground) or they fall on their ass like a 10 year old kid who tripped on a rock.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:... writing the state is operated for profit is just making things way too simple. I mean the state does a lot of things that have nothing to do with profit and all with just being a group of dickheads ( like fining people for drinking in the streets) for example. The problems with authority, the economy. society, etc are too complex to be solved by one idea. Thats one major reason why all ideologies fail. They try to make everything much simpler then it actually is and then yell out loud that they are the solution. The Holy Fucking Messiah. And in the end they get nowhere ( if they even rise up off the ground) or they fall on their ass like a 10 year old kid who tripped on a rock.

Eh? So a state is okay as long as it doesn't stop you doing what you like? "Stuff the rest of the people me and the state are best drinking buddies"

Isakenaz wrote: Eh? So a state is okay as long as it doesn't stop you doing what you like? "Stuff the rest of the people me and the state are best drinking buddies"

No not at all, the state's never going to leave you alone so that wasnt my point.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Sure the majority of people wouldnt make it hard on themselves but they could make it hard on the minority of people. I mean the many lording over the few isnt any worse than the other way around.

What minority?

Well anarchist socialists might pretend that they want to get rid of government but from what Ive seen they are only playing word games. Direct democracy is what it is ( you know the majority of people making decisions without representatives) and it sure as hell is a type of government.

Is this linked to your majority over minority crap? How are they playing word games? What kind of society do you want then if giving the majority power instead of the minority (who, in an anarchist society, would not be a minority that pose any political or economical thread to anyone) will turn out badly? Your incessant efforts to pick out any crumbs you can find under the sofa of socialism and society in general is getting boring.

How exactly did you come up with the idea of starting this thread? "Hmm, I don't care about politics. I guess I'll just start a thread about politics on a political forum full of people who care about politics and start criticising every political position I can think of, because I really don't care about politics."

DSN wrote:What minority?

Any group of people the majority of people doesnt like. Drunk people who walk around on the street is an example if thats what you want.

Is this linked to your majority over minority crap? How are they playing word games? What kind of society do you want then if giving the majority power instead of the minority (who, in an anarchist society, would not be a minority that pose any political or economical thread to anyone) will turn out badly? Your incessant efforts to pick out any crumbs you can find under the sofa of socialism and society in general is getting boring.

How exactly did you come up with the idea of starting this thread? "Hmm, I don't care about politics. I guess I'll just start a thread about politics on a political forum full of people who care about politics and start criticising every political position I can think of, because I really don't care about politics."

Well if you look at some anarchist socialist writings ( most anarchist writings really) they go on about wanting to get rid of the state but then talk about forming voluntary associations or whatever else to make laws and keep the peace. Thats what I call playing word games. I dont want any sort of society cause Im anti society. Yeah its honestly true that I dont care about politics and society but I do care about attacking politics and society. Im no different than many thrash metal bands except instead of attacking politics and society by playing music I attack these things by typing words.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well if you look at some anarchist socialist writings ( most anarchist writings really) they go on about wanting to get rid of the state but then talk about forming voluntary associations or whatever else to make laws and keep the peace. Thats what I call playing word games. I dont want any sort of society cause Im anti society. Yeah its honestly true that I dont care about politics and society but I do care about attacking politics and society. Im no different than many thrash metal bands except instead of attacking politics and society by playing music I attack these things by typing words.

The existential-nihilist approach is best left to more philosophically inclined individuals who, instead of lamenting, work for change despite their core system(s) of belief. What you are doing isn't noble, it's actually pretty lame. You sound like a variation of millions of people. Most people are like you, actually, but consist of varying shades. If you want to truly attack anything or stand out, work toward change. Don't just lament and go on with your life. That's already been done, much better than you ever could.

Would you be happier if life resembled one of those post-apocalyptic fantasy worlds? I can just see you running around in your garden with a tinfoil hat on and a toy gun in your hands.

Anyway, having pointless discussions like this won't change anything for you. You argue against people who care about politics, but you don't actually argue against politics.

Even if you're trolling, I fail to see what satisfaction you gain from this.

Altair wrote:

The existential-nihilist approach is best left to more philosophically inclined individuals who, instead of lamenting, work for change despite their core system(s) of belief. What you are doing isn't noble, it's actually pretty lame. You sound like a variation of millions of people. Most people are like you, actually, but consist of varying shades. If you want to truly attack anything or stand out, work toward change. Don't just lament and go on with your life. That's already been done, much better than you ever could.

Im not lamenting, Im criticizing. Intellectuals have done their thing far too long without a challenge, its time for them to get some feedback from common folk like me.

DSN wrote:Would you be happier if life resembled one of those post-apocalyptic fantasy worlds? I can just see you running around in your garden with a tinfoil hat on and a toy gun in your hands.

Hell yeah it would be really fucking awesome if life was like a post apocalyptic world but where did you come up with the toy gun and tinfoil hat thing? If i was running around in that kind of scenario Id be holding a real gun and wearing my Arrow Cross war helmet.

Anyway, having pointless discussions like this won't change anything for you. You argue against people who care about politics, but you don't actually argue against politics.

Even if you're trolling, I fail to see what satisfaction you gain from this.

The reason I started this thread was to ask why should someone care about politics and society. I got basically the answers I expected and then the thread went a little off topic. That means this thread is finished on my part.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Im not lamenting, Im criticizing. Intellectuals have done their thing far too long without a challenge, its time for them to get some feedback from common folk like me.

Amen to that.

In a post-apocalyptic world, the evil anarchist government will come and oppress you as a rebellious minority.

TheocWulf wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Im not lamenting, Im criticizing. Intellectuals have done their thing far too long without a challenge, its time for them to get some feedback from common folk like me.

Amen to that.

Why should we care about politics and society?

Let's set aside the fact that virtually every anthropological investigation into human behavior has revealed that mankind is social in nature—thereby rendering bourgeois social relations profoundly alienating—and try to think of this from a purely egocentric perspective. You are the beneficiary of a division of labor, global trade, and a sophisticated infrastructure which provide you with the ability to live in a manner previous generations couldn't even conceive of. Health care, education, and advanced forms of transportation enable you to lead a very comfortable and fulfilling life. In fact, the primary reason you should concern yourself with politics is because these staples of a dignified existence are egregiously maldistributed under capitalism.

As for society, it's immensely important because "Only in community [with others has each] individual the means of cultivating his gifts in all directions; only in the community, therefore, is personal freedom possible" [Karl Marx, The German Ideology (London: Lawrence & Wishart, 2004), p. 83]. In other words, it is only through society that we have the potential to attain self-realization. As isolated individuals, the most we can amount to is barbarism; as a collectivity, we can build civilizations.

Your rank anti-intellectualism is not shared by the majority of working people either, for they understand and appreciate the progress which knowledge engenders.

With that said, I am tired of your incessantly nihilistic and poorly articulated threads. Either think of something new to discuss or don't bother returning to this forum.