Why Care About Politics and Society?

Ok so if you care about politics then that means you care about society. Why? Because political goals always have something to do with people. Every political thing affects people so that means if you take a political stance then you care about other people. Now Im not saying you shouldnt care about other people, cause everybody does. What Im asking is why care about other people who arent friends or family? That is society as a whole. I mean you have never met these people, you dont know them, hell you probably havent even seen most of them. So why spend time trying to make political things happen that will help them when you really have nothing to do with them.Honestly why even bother? Why not focus on making things better for yourself and the circle of people you hang around with and actually know in your daily life? Totally honest question .

I know Im probably going to get a reply that says " To make life better for yourself you must work together with other people to make it happen. Your fate is bound to theirs anyways." But I say that isnt a good point. I mean sure I agree you might need help but if so then why not work togther with people you already know and get along with ? Why should you take part in a political movement like Socialism that has tons of people in it you dont know at all? Mean trust is supposed to be the key for working together and why trust people you hardly know ?

You have a very limited understanding of socialism. Socialism is not a hippie philosophy based on tie dye t-shirts and a permanent MDMA-like feeling towards everyone else in the world. Please, flush that out of your head. Your question here completely disregards everything that socialism seeks to replace. How are we to abolish wage slavery and the monopolisation of capital simply by sticking close to our families? If anything, this would make people more hostile towards each other going by a vicious small scale neanderthal stance on survival. Heck, even the neanderthals learned to reach out to each other to better their quality of life and increase their chances of survival.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Ok so if you care about politics then that means you care about society. Why? [...] Why not focus on making things better for yourself and the circle of people you hang around with and actually know in your daily life? Totally honest question .

That implies the strange notion that there is no interconnection between people who do happen to not know or like each other. Imagine getting severly injured in a car crash. Regardless of who caused it you would certainly demand some help for yourself and the other driver. You would certainly try to call an ambulance, and rely on outside help. And having managed to do so paramedics wouldn't legally be able to turn down your request and leave your for dead. Why do you think that is? Many societies have acknowleged what one would call a strange unspoken bond between all people. We rely on each other in so many different situations. That's why we pay taxes. We do it for those who have a hard time getting through life and we expect them to reach out for us once we fall into a hole. It's certainly quid-pro-quo but also beyond. So at the end of the day we've done it for us. In Europe where this treaty is commonly accepted as well as demanded to be enforced people have a much better life. They have health insurence no matter what, they have social security no matter what. And guess what: They are all happy that way because they don't have to fear for their lives being torn apart the next day they get unemployed. They don't have to rob liquor stores to make a living, they don't have to take other people's lives to sustain their own. That's because they care about each other in the first place. So why bother about politics? Because it's a matter of life or death for your friends and family.

DSN wrote:You have a very limited understanding of socialism. Socialism is not a hippie philosophy based on tie dye t-shirts and a permanent MDMA-like feeling towards everyone else in the world. Please, flush that out of your head. Your question here completely disregards everything that socialism seeks to replace. How are we to abolish wage slavery and the monopolisation of capital simply by sticking close to our families? If anything, this would make people more hostile towards each other going by a vicious small scale neanderthal stance on survival. Heck, even the neanderthals learned to reach out to each other to better their quality of life and increase their chances of survival.

But why want to free people from wage slavery and capital manipulation that you dont know at all? Why not try to free yourself and/ or those you feel close to? You could try doing that by becoming self employed or making a cooperative business for friends and family only.

Also come on guys whats with all this " You dont know what your talking about Rebel Warrior" type comments in posts? Mean back when I was a Socialist none of you said any of that but now this pops up a lot. Do it if your feel better that way ( my feelings sure as hell aint gonna get hurt on the Internet) but I could throw back something like that as well. Sure I am white trash but that doesnt mean I dont know what your beliefs are.

Lumpenproletariat wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Ok so if you care about politics then that means you care about society. Why? [...] Why not focus on making things better for yourself and the circle of people you hang around with and actually know in your daily life? Totally honest question .

That implies the strange notion that there is no interconnection between people who do happen to not know or like each other. Imagine getting severly injured in a car crash. Regardless of who caused it you would certainly demand some help for yourself and the other driver. You would certainly try to call an ambulance, and rely on outside help. And having managed to do so paramedics wouldn't legally be able to turn down your request and leave your for dead. Why do you think that is? Many societies have acknowleged what one would call a strange unspoken bond between all people. We rely on each other in so many different situations. That's why we pay taxes. We do it for those who have a hard time getting through life and we expect them to reach out for us once we fall into a hole. It's certainly quid-pro-quo but also beyond. So at the end of the day we've done it for us. In Europe where this treaty is commonly accepted as well as demanded to be enforced people have a much better life. They have health insurence no matter what, they have social security no matter what. And guess what: They are all happy that way because they don't have to fear for their lives being torn apart the next day they get unemployed. They don't have to rob liquor stores to make a living, they don't have to take other people's lives to sustain their own. That's because they care about each other in the first place. So why bother about politics? Because it's a matter of life or death for your friends and family.

Good answer. This really opens up a whole new can of worms but I say your right when it comes to living in civiization. But not when it comes to barbarism. See leaning only on those close to you would work totally well if humans went back to being barbarians. Ill probably write more later but yeah if you live in modern civilization then all that you wrote makes sense.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:But why want to free people from wage slavery and capital manipulation that you dont know at all? Why not try to free yourself and/ or those you feel close to? You could try doing that by becoming self employed or making a cooperative business for friends and family only.

You think that the solution to all of the problems capitalism brings to one's life is self-employment? Do you even realise how many independent businesses are struggling to survive above competition from other small businesses and the big corporations? Capitalism does not rely on the sort of "consensual slavery" drivel libertarians use to defend their property fetish. And why would I not take the help of those who share my views? I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy waking up every morning to more and more restrictions on the wellbeing of myself and others. I'm not going to cry every time someone who I don't know dies of cancer, nor am I going to invite homeless people to sleep on my sofa, but I have the capacity to be bothered by something beyond my immediate self.

Also come on guys whats with all this " You dont know what your talking about Rebel Warrior" type comments in posts? Mean back when I was a Socialist none of you said any of that but now this pops up a lot. Do it if your feel better that way ( my feelings sure as hell aint gonna get hurt on the Internet) but I could throw back something like that as well. Sure I am white trash but that doesnt mean I dont know what your beliefs are.

I'm curious to know what it was about socialism that appealed to you in the first place. Did it make you feel like a "rebel warrior" by any chance? And please, spare me the white trash thing. It's like white people trying to act ghetto or something. I don't mean to sound like I'm getting into the whole virtual grudge thing, but it always sounds as though you're trying to simplify things beyond reason for the sake of stirring controversy. I would honestly love to see you contribute something to the forum beyond the smelly, brutish drunkard analysis of the working class man, or the diehard individualist path of me-ism.

DSN wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:But why want to free people from wage slavery and capital manipulation that you dont know at all? Why not try to free yourself and/ or those you feel close to? You could try doing that by becoming self employed or making a cooperative business for friends and family only.

You think that the solution to all of the problems capitalism brings to one's life is self-employment? Do you even realise how many independent businesses are struggling to survive above competition from other small businesses and the big corporations? Capitalism does not rely on the sort of "consensual slavery" drivel libertarians use to defend their property fetish. And why would I not take the help of those who share my views? I don't know about you, but I don't enjoy waking up every morning to more and more restrictions on the wellbeing of myself and others. I'm not going to cry every time someone who I don't know dies of cancer, nor am I going to invite homeless people to sleep on my sofa, but I have the capacity to be bothered by something beyond my immediate self.

Also come on guys whats with all this " You dont know what your talking about Rebel Warrior" type comments in posts? Mean back when I was a Socialist none of you said any of that but now this pops up a lot. Do it if your feel better that way ( my feelings sure as hell aint gonna get hurt on the Internet) but I could throw back something like that as well. Sure I am white trash but that doesnt mean I dont know what your beliefs are.

I'm curious to know what it was about socialism that appealed to you in the first place. Did it make you feel like a "rebel warrior" by any chance? And please, spare me the white trash thing. It's like white people trying to act ghetto or something. I don't mean to sound like I'm getting into the whole virtual grudge thing, but it always sounds as though you're trying to simplify things beyond reason for the sake of stirring controversy. I would honestly love to see you contribute something to the forum beyond the smelly, brutish drunkard analysis of the working class man, or the diehard individualist path of me-ism.

Well if your really that bothered by capitalism then why not just go and live in the wilderness? Or even better why not start a revolution? Honestly by doing that youd get support from many people. Hell I seriously swear that if the Socialist Phalanx started a revolution tomorrow then id grab my guns and join it just for the fun of it all. Whats more plenty of people like me would too. After that wed all get back to our simple fun while all the ideological types would get to create their own new system. Of course a revolt like that might not work out but really Marx was wrong about what he called adventurers. You Socialists need all the help you can get being so few in number. Anyways to swing back on track I dont see why I should care about those outside my social circle. Ok Im sort of a nationalist but that doesnt mean Im gonna care about everyone in my nation.

Your questions going to get me off track here but what the hell I already went off a bit anyways. I used to care about politics. I dont wat to get into a big story here ( you can ask the founding members of this forum about how I stumbled upon Socialism if you really like, of course they might not want to write about it who knows) but I tried believing a lot of political ideologies. Anarchism, White Nationalism, Socialism and so on till I realized it all boils down to wanting to make life better for millions of people youve never met and will never meet. And that to me is ridiculous which is why the main reason that I fell out of the whole thing. Of course simply getting a bit older had to do with it as well. Course it wasnt long ago at all when I was A Socialist and Im stiil a young guy after all but I was 18 when I got into this political stuff. Back then I was still pretty much a teenager in thinking anyways. Im 21 now and one thing little thing Ive got out of life is that everyday life has enough problems already for you to go around looking for new ones. Politics is basically problems if you break it down so thats why I want to avoid it. You might see my point 4 years down the road a bit better. Im not trying to say your a naive 17 year old but honestly dude once you hit your twenties things do look different. And as for white trash ok if you dont like the word then replace it with stereotypical headbanger. And there sure as hell are people like that.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well if your really that bothered by capitalism then why not just go and live in the wilderness? Or even better why not start a revolution? Honestly by doing that youd get support from many people.

This is some serious troll material. I might use it on RevLeft.

Hell I seriously swear that if the Socialist Phalanx started a revolution tomorrow then id grab my guns and join it just for the fun of it all.

You'd risk being killed to help others you don't care about for your own fun even though you think what you're fighting for won't work or wouldn't happen in the first place?

Ok Im sort of a nationalist but that doesnt mean Im gonna care about everyone in my nation.

What aspect(s) of nationalism do you like? This might answer your own question for you.

Your questions going to get me off track here but what the hell I already went off a bit anyways. I used to care about politics. I dont wat to get into a big story here ( you can ask the founding members of this forum about how I stumbled upon Socialism if you really like, of course they might not want to write about it who knows) but I tried believing a lot of political ideologies. Anarchism, White Nationalism, Socialism and so on till I realized it all boils down to wanting to make life better for millions of people youve never met and will never meet. And that to me is ridiculous which is why the main reason that I fell out of the whole thing. Of course simply getting a bit older had to do with it as well. Course it wasnt long ago at all when I was A Socialist and Im stiil a young guy after all but I was 18 when I got into this political stuff. Back then I was still pretty much a teenager in thinking anyways. Im 21 now and one thing little thing Ive got out of life is that everyday life has enough problems already for you to go around looking for new ones. Politics is basically problems if you break it down so thats why I want to avoid it. You might see my point 4 years down the road a bit better. Im not trying to say your a naive 17 year old but honestly dude once you hit your twenties things do look different. And as for white trash ok if you dont like the word then replace it with stereotypical headbanger. And there sure as hell are people like that.

I understand that I'm not Karl Marx at the age of 17, and of course I will see things differently in my twenties; for all I know I could even be a suicide bomber and messenger of Allah by the time I'm 30. Maybe you're right, but until then there are enough socialists, fascists, libertarians and god knows who else in their twenties for me to consider the fact that my views may be invalid for reasons other than my age.

DSN wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well if your really that bothered by capitalism then why not just go and live in the wilderness? Or even better why not start a revolution? Honestly by doing that youd get support from many people.

This is some serious troll material. I might use it on RevLeft.

Hell I seriously swear that if the Socialist Phalanx started a revolution tomorrow then id grab my guns and join it just for the fun of it all.

You'd risk being killed to help others you don't care about for your own fun even though you think what you're fighting for won't work or wouldn't happen in the first place?

Ok Im sort of a nationalist but that doesnt mean Im gonna care about everyone in my nation.

What aspect(s) of nationalism do you like? This might answer your own question for you.

Your questions going to get me off track here but what the hell I already went off a bit anyways. I used to care about politics. I dont wat to get into a big story here ( you can ask the founding members of this forum about how I stumbled upon Socialism if you really like, of course they might not want to write about it who knows) but I tried believing a lot of political ideologies. Anarchism, White Nationalism, Socialism and so on till I realized it all boils down to wanting to make life better for millions of people youve never met and will never meet. And that to me is ridiculous which is why the main reason that I fell out of the whole thing. Of course simply getting a bit older had to do with it as well. Course it wasnt long ago at all when I was A Socialist and Im stiil a young guy after all but I was 18 when I got into this political stuff. Back then I was still pretty much a teenager in thinking anyways. Im 21 now and one thing little thing Ive got out of life is that everyday life has enough problems already for you to go around looking for new ones. Politics is basically problems if you break it down so thats why I want to avoid it. You might see my point 4 years down the road a bit better. Im not trying to say your a naive 17 year old but honestly dude once you hit your twenties things do look different. And as for white trash ok if you dont like the word then replace it with stereotypical headbanger. And there sure as hell are people like that.

I understand that I'm not Karl Marx at the age of 17, and of course I will see things differently in my twenties; for all I know I could even be a suicide bomber and messenger of Allah by the time I'm 30. Maybe you're right, but until then there are enough socialists, fascists, libertarians and god knows who else in their twenties for me to consider the fact that my views may be invalid for reasons other than my age.

No its not. If your that concerned about getting rid of a system then you should try to overthrow it. Of course many Socialists believe in waiting around for things to turn to hell so then they can start the revolution but until that happens they could try living in the wilderness to get away from it. Sure this isnt much of a point but it came to mind so i wrote it down.


Well okay I wouldnt join you ( my help wouldnt be accepted anyways) but I sure as hell would go out and start fighting cops, butchering politicians, etc. I mean everyday stuff like drinking beer can be fun but just like everyone else Id love to do truly awesome stuff. I mean why do you think so many movies, video games, and TV shows are violent ? Its cause people are drawn to violence. Its part of our inner beastly nature. Tons of people want to live out those feelings but cant because of the rules put on them by civilization. This does open a new can of worms but I think another reason why civilization might collapse in the future is because humans by nature are barbarians.Many people say that humans should keep their dark, beastly, vulgar, and barbaric nature in check but I say thats bad cause it leads to anger. Holding back your true nature will not work for long, cause it will come out eventually twice as savage. Anyhow Id love it if there was a revolution. I mean is it a bad thing to want to do something that isnt an everyday thing?

I dont have a question about this. I have tribal feeling toward my nation like everyone else but I dont get caught up in it. Im a simple berserker minded nationalist if you will. If my people are attacked then Ill pick up a weapon and fight but other than that Id rather hang at the bar then get into fighting for political change that would supposedly be good for my people.

Yeah well the main point is I just saw politics was useless and got bored of it so Im not into it now.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:No its not. If your that concerned about getting rid of a system then you should try to overthrow it. Of course many Socialists believe in waiting around for things to turn to hell so then they can start the revolution but until that happens they could try living in the wilderness to get away from it. Sure this isnt much of a point but it came to mind so i wrote it down.

How do you suppose socialists start a revolution right now? Run into the streets with red flags and shoot at cops? I can guarantee you this will not lead to the overthrow of capitalism.

Well okay I wouldnt join you ( my help wouldnt be accepted anyways) but I sure as hell would go out and start fighting cops, butchering politicians, etc. I mean everyday stuff like drinking beer can be fun but just like everyone else Id love to do truly awesome stuff. I mean why do you think so many movies, video games, and TV shows are violent ? Its cause people are drawn to violence. Its part of our inner beastly nature. Tons of people want to live out those feelings but cant because of the rules put on them by civilization. This does open a new can of worms but I think another reason why civilization might collapse in the future is because humans by nature are barbarians.Many people say that humans should keep their dark, beastly, vulgar, and barbaric nature in check but I say thats bad cause it leads to anger. Holding back your true nature will not work for long, cause it will come out eventually twice as savage. Anyhow Id love it if there was a revolution. I mean is it a bad thing to want to do something that isnt an everyday thing?

The beastly caveman stuff only comes into play when it is required by survival conditions. Although I may joke about it, I don't have any real desire to chop off anyone's head or spear people through the heart.

I dont have a question about this. I have tribal feeling toward my nation like everyone else but I dont get caught up in it. Im a simple berserker minded nationalist if you will. If my people are attacked then Ill pick up a weapon and fight but other than that Id rather hang at the bar then get into fighting for political change that would supposedly be good for my people.

I thought you were only interested in your friends and family?

Yeah well the main point is I just saw politics was useless and got bored of it so Im not into it now.

So you decided to come to a political forum and talk about politics?

Yeah well the main point is I just saw politics was useless and got bored of it so Im not into it now.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to RW59, the final statement clearly points to the state of his mind, as you spotted. However, his earlier point;

Of course many Socialists believe in waiting around for things to turn to hell so then they can start the revolution

isn't far off the money. It is too often the fact that socialists spend too much time debating, when they should be acting.

DSN wrote:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:No its not. If your that concerned about getting rid of a system then you should try to overthrow it. Of course many Socialists believe in waiting around for things to turn to hell so then they can start the revolution but until that happens they could try living in the wilderness to get away from it. Sure this isnt much of a point but it came to mind so i wrote it down.

How do you suppose socialists start a revolution right now? Run into the streets with red flags and shoot at cops? I can guarantee you this will not lead to the overthrow of capitalism.

Well okay I wouldnt join you ( my help wouldnt be accepted anyways) but I sure as hell would go out and start fighting cops, butchering politicians, etc. I mean everyday stuff like drinking beer can be fun but just like everyone else Id love to do truly awesome stuff. I mean why do you think so many movies, video games, and TV shows are violent ? Its cause people are drawn to violence. Its part of our inner beastly nature. Tons of people want to live out those feelings but cant because of the rules put on them by civilization. This does open a new can of worms but I think another reason why civilization might collapse in the future is because humans by nature are barbarians.Many people say that humans should keep their dark, beastly, vulgar, and barbaric nature in check but I say thats bad cause it leads to anger. Holding back your true nature will not work for long, cause it will come out eventually twice as savage. Anyhow Id love it if there was a revolution. I mean is it a bad thing to want to do something that isnt an everyday thing?

The beastly caveman stuff only comes into play when it is required by survival conditions. Although I may joke about it, I don't have any real desire to chop off anyone's head or spear people through the heart.

I dont have a question about this. I have tribal feeling toward my nation like everyone else but I dont get caught up in it. Im a simple berserker minded nationalist if you will. If my people are attacked then Ill pick up a weapon and fight but other than that Id rather hang at the bar then get into fighting for political change that would supposedly be good for my people.

I thought you were only interested in your friends and family?

Yeah well the main point is I just saw politics was useless and got bored of it so Im not into it now.

So you decided to come to a political forum and talk about politics?

Well you could try that. Maybe then people would actually notice you and then you would have some curious Georges looking up your beliefs and spreading them later on. I mean there have been examples of people who died in the past and then became a big inspiration for a future movement. Braveheart was sort of like that ( I might be wrong here though) . Anyways sitting around and waiting for everything to go to shit and then starting a revolution is a good idea too. Really my first comment was pointless. I think and type a little too fast.


Ok maybe you dont have much violence in you but othes do. And Im not talking about chopping heads off and killing. Plenty of people want to kick ass but cant because of stupid rules. I mean kids can get kicked out of school for fighting even if they didnt start the fight. Grown ups can sue each other for fighting which makes courts the king of all. All this cowardly nonsense leads to honest warrior values being pused to the side. This is all thanks to civilization. Under barbarism there wasnt any of this weakass crap. You could crush your enemies with no delay. The point is humans by nature long to crush their enemies, long for war, and are more suited to barbarism as well. Thats partly why this whole system is going to collapse.


Mostly but like I said Im somewhat nationalist. In the barbarian sort of way.


No I came here to argue against politics, civilization, authority, and everything respectable and to argue for outlawry, barbarism, vulgarness, etc. Nobody has really done this on the Internet so thats why I want to wave this flag high. If all the respectable stuff has been argued for in writing then all the unrespectable stuff should be as well.

DSN wrote:

And Im supposed to be the juvenile one when you post pictures like this. I never wrote anything a Internet tough guy would write. I only wrote humans swing toward the violent side. Anyways Im calling this a night for now.

I never said anything about you being a juvenile. I just don't know what to say when you bring out barbarianism as a practical solution to today's frustrations.

Well, there was a comic book character back in the 1980s called 'Thrud the Barbarian', he had a simple solution to everything.
What he lacked in intelligence he more than compensated for in bulk. Maybe that's what RW has in mind?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrud_the_Barbarian

SOCIALIST SMASH!!!1

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Ok so if you care about politics then that means you care about society. Why? Because political goals always have something to do with people. Every political thing affects people so that means if you take a political stance then you care about other people. Now Im not saying you shouldnt care about other people, cause everybody does. What Im asking is why care about other people who arent friends or family? That is society as a whole. I mean you have never met these people, you dont know them, hell you probably havent even seen most of them. So why spend time trying to make political things happen that will help them when you really have nothing to do with them.Honestly why even bother? Why not focus on making things better for yourself and the circle of people you hang around with and actually know in your daily life? Totally honest question .

What you are summing up is the self interest which fuels capitalism. By making life better for one self and circle of friends as opposed to society as a whole is the law of the jungle, where the biggest and strongest prey on the weaker and vulnerable. In such a situation we may be comfortable for a short time, until a bigger and stronger group wish to take advantage of us. Working for mutual benefit means the weakest are supported by the strongest and through society benefitting as a whole and people working towards this aim, greed and exploitation can be eliminated.

Isakenaz wrote:Well, there was a comic book character back in the 1980s called 'Thrud the Barbarian', he had a simple solution to everything.
What he lacked in intelligence he more than compensated for in bulk. Maybe that's what RW has in mind?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrud_the_Barbarian

This is the first time I hear about this guy but yes I was trying to write something similar.

That is if civilization means a complex way of life then barbarism simple means a simple way of life. Being a barbarian doesnt mean you have to dress up in furs and carry a big sword while grunting, pillaging, and raping. Im not trying to say " Ok guys if everyone just put on their warpaint, picked up their broadswords, and went berserk then everything would be better". No I know I couldnt pillage or rape myself. What Im writing about is going back to a simple more natural way of life. Getting rid of all the legalism, formalities, and respectable nonsense that make civilization what it is. You could have a computer at home and still be a barbarian. Because civilization and barbarism are about mindset. Ill probably get more into this on another thread but I think Ive gotten across my point.

Modgardener wrote:What you are summing up is the self interest which fuels capitalism. By making life better for one self and circle of friends as opposed to society as a whole is the law of the jungle, where the biggest and strongest prey on the weaker and vulnerable. In such a situation we may be comfortable for a short time, until a bigger and stronger group wish to take advantage of us. Working for mutual benefit means the weakest are supported by the strongest and through society benefitting as a whole and people working towards this aim, greed and exploitation can be eliminated.

Ok but dont the strong prey on the weak even when there is a society based on mututal benefit? I mean bullies wouldnt magically fade away if that came about. Also people can avoid or resist the strong. Of course that might not work but I see nothing wrong in losing as long as you did your best to stay free.

Why should you lose and have to fight to stay free? It's pointless when there is an alternative. Unless of course you have desires to be one of the bullies.

In a society based on mutual benefit the weak will be supported and not preyed upon and bullies can easily be exposed and action taken.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Ok but dont the strong prey on the weak even when there is a society based on mututal benefit? I mean bullies wouldnt magically fade away if that came about. Also people can avoid or resist the strong. Of course that might not work but I see nothing wrong in losing as long as you did your best to stay free.

How are the government and capitalists going to prey on the weak in a society where they don't exist? Politically and economically there would be no strong and weak in a socialist/communist society. Sure, you could come and beat the crap out of me or push a disabled kid out of a wheelchair, but we're not looking to set up a worldwide bullying programme or wheelchair charity.

Modgardener wrote:Why should you lose and have to fight to stay free? It's pointless when there is an alternative. Unless of course you have desires to be one of the bullies.

In a society based on mutual benefit the weak will be supported and not preyed upon and bullies can easily be exposed and action taken.

The things is doesnt everything end up at square one when it comes to this question? I mean lets paint a broad example here: Humans can live two ways: With a system or without a system. The thing is that both choices have evil in them. I mean you get injustice either way system or no system. Your never going to have real justice. And that brings me back to my question of why care? Why care about trying to solve society's problems ( which would involve politics) when there' still going to be problems left anyway that you cant solve? If you cant patch up a hole and make it totally watertight then why even bother patching it up? Why not just face up to the facts and just go on living your own life instead of coming up with some big idea and trying to fix things? This is my question for the ideologues.

DSN wrote:How are the government and capitalists going to prey on the weak in a society where they don't exist? Politically and economically there would be no strong and weak in a socialist/communist society. Sure, you could come and beat the crap out of me or push a disabled kid out of a wheelchair, but we're not looking to set up a worldwide bullying programme or wheelchair charity.

Well there would be government in a socialist society and that could ( and would) prey on those it ruled over. Socialism might solve the economic headaches of people but I dont see how it would stop the state from being a dickhead. Yeah sure there's anarchist socialism but Im pretty sure those guys want direct democracy, which is government ( no matter how much they like to split hairs), which puts everything back at square one.