Things Barbarians Hate

Ok so Socialism is based on so called " Enlightenment " values ( or whatever the fuck their called, words arent important) and those values fucking suck. Here's why:

Enlightenment values are based on ideas like equality, fraternity, comfort ( even liberty which is a cool thing) etc. These ideas are all based in civilization and not barbarism. Now then these values basically turn people into comfort seeking weaklings with no sense of pride. How? Well first of all Enlightenment values place comfort and peace above struggle and war. This teaches people to be more like fucking helpless peasant farmers rather than warlike barbarians. Dont fight back if a bully hits you, let the teacher or cop take care of it. These values say that man's basic animal nature is bad and should be replaced by pretentious wankery ( aka civilized behavior). Yes sure humans have a higher nature ( suited for nerdy stuff like poetry and math) but they also have a lower beast man nature as well. Humans should be left to live with both sides, the light and the dark, of their nature. Its only natural that violence, war, pillaging ( as well as less hardcore stuff like drunkenness, stupidity, and goofing off) happen in this world. Sure this stuff isnt good but evil is a part of man as well as good. Humans should learn to accept and live with their evil side as well as their good.

You can sit around, pretend, and deny that people arent drawn to violence, sex, and other beastly stuff but that wont do you any good. Nature cant be changed by man made artificial ideas like Socialism. You can try but you will probably fail.

Anyways this is only the first part of this thread. Ill write the second part tomorrow. And dont worry, it will have very much " substance" as you all say.

On second thought Ill go on a bit. Its hard to bring up points against a bad idea cause theres often tons of points you can bring up. Anyways the main thing you can really shake a stick at for society is its hypocrisy regarding humans beastly nature. See TV, movies, music, etc are chock filled with violence, cussing, sex, etc, yet at school and most workplaces the rules totally prohibit these things that are often shown in the mainstream media. Thats society for you. Does it make any sense? No but that is how everything works. Its hypocrisy painted on the wall yet everybody accepts it. I know someone's going to reply "Oh well thats because of Capitalist money interests" but that is missing half the picture. Yes sure its cause of Capitalist money interests that these animal like parts of human behavior are shown in the media but that doesnt explain why such behavior isnt allowed at schools and workplaces. Capitalists dont get anymore money in their pockets by having fighting or low cut dresses banned in lets say high schools. They have no profit to gain from that at all yet that stuff is still banned ( more proof that Capitalists arent the only ones worth lashing out at).

An even more relevant point as to why society sucks is this respectable behavior nonsense. You know the unwritten rules of conduct nailed into everyone's heads by sayings like " What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas". Getting drunk,cursing, fist fighting, sleeping around, and goofing off are still thought of as bad behavior by many. The thing is why? I mean what are people supposed to be holy saints 24/7 ? Trying to create a world free of violence, offensive stuff, stupidity, etc means totally ignoring human nature. Its an unrealistic aim at Utopia. Whats more ( relevant that is ) is that trying to cage in certain human instincts like goofing off is no more then trying to rein in humans. And that is like telling a bird it cant fly. Theres no scientific proof but I think its no surprise that many sudden outbreaks of evil ( like school shootings) are the result of trying to contain evil and bad stuff too much. Again if humans started accepting and trying to live with the fact that we are almost all going to do good and evil in our lives there would be less tension and therefore less sudden outbursts of evil.

Now where does this all tie in with Socialism? Well since someone wil probably ask what any of this has to do with Socialism Ill write it down. Marxist Socialism/ Communism in the past had the very same hypocritical and puritanical views of morality that todays society has. I mean to name some examples the Communists restricted the sale , production, and distribution of alcohol in Sopron, Hungary in 1919. Also many Communist governments all across the East Block banned or restricted rock music, prostitution, contraceptives, censored many things, etc. Granted the Socialists and Communists of today may think different but some statements made by some of them make me doubt that the spirit of Puritan stuff is totally gone from Socialism and Communism. So yeah here is one ( very relevant for today) reason as for why society sucks: It has almost always sought to regulate morality and control people's behavior.

Ill write more reasons about why society sucks later on.

Rebel Warrior, why don't you stop throwing around "human nature" as though the two words alone actually mean anything, and actually provide some substance to your argument? Yes, we understand that you'd love to fight ogres with a beer can in one hand and a spiky dildo in the other so that you could save sexy women from the ogre's dungeons and make beastly love to them in the forests of Rebel Land. Does it not occur to you that maybe humans are a bit more than a strict mindset of mate, feed, kill, repeat? How many goddamn cartoons and movies do you watch? I can't help but laugh at most of what you say. Maybe I should simplify all of your posts on society so far:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Okay, so I just had a thought.

Violence, sex and beating up teachers for telling me not to wear a short skirt is a good way to live because I said so. Human nature, human nature, barbarism, apple sauce, human nature.

As for socialism, I have no idea what that is so I'm going to say whatever comes to mind when I think of two German guys with Santa beards and apelike factory workers verbally abusing each other at the pub.

DSN wrote:Rebel Warrior, why don't you stop throwing around "human nature" as though the two words alone actually mean anything, and actually provide some substance to your argument? Yes, we understand that you'd love to fight ogres with a beer can in one hand and a spiky dildo in the other so that you could save sexy women from the ogre's dungeons and make beastly love to them in the forests of Rebel Land. Does it not occur to you that maybe humans are a bit more than a strict mindset of mate, feed, kill, repeat? How many goddamn cartoons and movies do you watch? I can't help but laugh at most of what you say. Maybe I should simplify all of your posts on society so far:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Okay, so I just had a thought.

Violence, sex and beating up teachers for telling me not to wear a short skirt is a good way to live because I said so. Human nature, human nature, barbarism, apple sauce, human nature.

As for socialism, I have no idea what that is so I'm going to say whatever comes to mind when I think of two German guys with Santa beards and apelike factory workers verbally abusing each other at the pub.

Or to put it simpler DSN,
"Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Theres this Enlightenment notion that reason is the main thing to use when looking at things. And its totally fucking false. I mean yes reason can and should be used but its no the main thing to use when looking at human nature and experience. Can you explain why ( why when you were a little kid) you went up to the mirror and acted like a cowboy? No you cant. There are so many things you cant explain using reason and that is why this idea is not true.

Theres this other Englightenment notion that people have " rights" that they get by being born into society. That is totally false. The only rights you have are the rights the powers that be aloow you to have or that you get yourself. Yes your teachers in 6th grade said that oh you have rights. Bullshit you can only do exactly what authority wants you to unles you rise up against it. Its the law of nature that the strong rule the weak ( as many others before have pointed out) and whether or not you like it thats the way things have gone and will go on forever. Again Enlgihtenment values are based on artificial manmade ideas that totally ignore the laws of nature. Theres no equality in nature, theres no compassion, theres no fraternity. All beings are different, at the very least in competition with each other, and often want to kill each other. This is reality.

Ill continue later.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Theres this Enlightenment notion that reason is the main thing to use when looking at things. And its totally fucking false. I mean yes reason can and should be used but its no the main thing to use when looking at human nature and experience. Can you explain why ( why when you were a little kid) you went up to the mirror and acted like a cowboy? No you cant. There are so many things you cant explain using reason and that is why this idea is not true.

Theres this other Englightenment notion that people have " rights" that they get by being born into society. That is totally false. The only rights you have are the rights the powers that be aloow you to have or that you get yourself. Yes your teachers in 6th grade said that oh you have rights. Bullshit you can only do exactly what authority wants you to unles you rise up against it. Its the law of nature that the strong rule the weak ( as many others before have pointed out) and whether or not you like it thats the way things have gone and will go on forever. Again Enlgihtenment values are based on artificial manmade ideas that totally ignore the laws of nature. Theres no equality in nature, theres no compassion, theres no fraternity. All beings are different, at the very least in competition with each other, and often want to kill each other. This is reality.

Ill continue later.

Flipping heck you must lead a very sad and lonely life, RW. Perhaps you should see a doctor or visit a euthanasia clinic.

Try this link you may find it beneficial; http://weheartcharice.forumotion.com/t73-hope-healing-of-pain-and-enlightenment-2007

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Theres this Enlightenment notion that reason is the main thing to use when looking at things. And its totally fucking false. I mean yes reason can and should be used but its no the main thing to use when looking at human nature and experience. Can you explain why ( why when you were a little kid) you went up to the mirror and acted like a cowboy? No you cant. There are so many things you cant explain using reason and that is why this idea is not true.

Theres this other Englightenment notion that people have " rights" that they get by being born into society. That is totally false. The only rights you have are the rights the powers that be aloow you to have or that you get yourself. Yes your teachers in 6th grade said that oh you have rights. Bullshit you can only do exactly what authority wants you to unles you rise up against it. Its the law of nature that the strong rule the weak ( as many others before have pointed out) and whether or not you like it thats the way things have gone and will go on forever. Again Enlgihtenment values are based on artificial manmade ideas that totally ignore the laws of nature. Theres no equality in nature, theres no compassion, theres no fraternity. All beings are different, at the very least in competition with each other, and often want to kill each other. This is reality.

Ill continue later.

Any natural law, whether it is the liberal or the "law of nature" variant you describe, is a product of human thought and abstraction, i.e., these laws of nature are no more or less legitimate than any other form of natural law. Not that we should try and ascribe to and fulfill "natural law" in the first place. The point of civilization is to overcome the barriers of natural law through society.

Another important thing to bring up against Enlightenment values is its emphasis on using reason as the main way to look at things and find truth. Sure reason is a good tool to use ( when say solving a math problem) but its not the end all be all of everything. Can reason explain love? Or even fear? No it cant. Theres so many things out there that cant be explained using reason which is why this Englightenment value fails.

The next Englightenment value that really blows ass is the idea that being serious is very important. I mean I already know Im probably going to get flak for using the words " blows ass" in my last sentence cause " its not serious and intellectual". This whole emphasis on intellectuality and seriousness is very much lacking. I mean goofing off and acting stupid are part of human nature so why is it that these things are looked down upon? This Enlightenment value of putting seriousness in place of nonsense ( instead of embracing both as important parts) is at odds with human nature. People are drawn to cheesiness as much as serious stuff. I mean what would most average people rather watch: a movie about an old boring professor giving his latest lecture or one in which a warrior slays a mighty dragon with the Red Blade of Doom? Sure the second movie would be cliche and probably even cheesy but come on thats not the point. The point is Enlightenment values ( and all ideologies based on these values) take certain parts of human nature and embrace them while looking down on its other parts instead of embracing human nature as a whole which would make humanity more complete in its pysche. Nonsense should be accepted alongside Sense and not kicked away like a bastard child.

Formal education is also something thats really overrated by Enlightenment values. Just think back to your middle and high school days when all the teachers were going on about " Oh you need a good education go to college" . Theres huge pressure on everyone to be as formally educated as possible, when in reality its not necessary at all. The only reason college degrees are worth more these days is cause corporations and their buddies in the education system wanted it. They literally pulled this idea out of their evilass asses one day and started this stupid trend of valuing college degrees more than high school ones. Im not saying that no one should go to college but this idea overall does little good. All it does is get more people into debt and take away at least 4 extra years of their life for the classroom. Formal education is a waste of time for most people who often arent even interested in it anyways except for the money ( which they oftentimes dont even end up earning).

The last thing I can bring up is that Enlightenment values put comfort and security above heroism and warlust. This creates tons of cowardly weak people. I mean just look at all the milksops who go to court instead of settling their differences by a good old fashioned fistfight or duel. Most arent cut out to be warriors but warlike and heroic values are better than weakass ones that create a bunch of wimps. Not to mention a huge money grubbing class ( aka lawyers). According to Enlightenment values satying home eating junk food and playing video games is better than picking up your weapon of war and going out to slay 20 enemies. This is unforgivable. The heroic and warlike virtues of the old world should arise once more.

Thats basically it as to why Enlightenment values suck.

Also I forgot to mention that Enlightenment values are essentially Semitic ( and by Semitic I dont just mean Jews but also Arabs, Syrians, all those Mid Eastern people) because they come from Christianity ( a Semitic religion). The universalism and humanism found in Enlightenment values have their roots in Christianity ( the first religion in which such values appeared). It is this religion which caused a proud people like the Magyars to turn from being proud nomadic warriors into helpless peasants. Semitic cultural values have been spread far wide the world over because of Christianity and have therefore diluted tons of unique cultures. In fact you could also say that civilization itself springs from a mindset similar to the Semitic one because weren't the first civilizations built by the ancestors of the Semites ( Mesopotamians, Babylonians, etc) ? Modernity and civilization are basically forms of Semitic cultural imperialism forced upon the world.

So the booze guzzling, deaththrashing, slutbanging, Hunky redneck headbanger returns once more to vomit forth his ghoulish blasphemies for your humanist eyes to see. Hahaha...

Anyways now that the ( I think very cool) intro is over so Ill get straight to the point: Ive written many times that society sucks and here are the reasons as to why. First of all society has always had a big dose of what you call conformism in it. It expects you to do what it considers good no questions asked. You want to wear the clothes you want to wear instead of that shit at the Gap? Too bad if you do your not cool anymore. You want to watch a TV show you want to watch instead of Monday night football like all the other people out there? Oh my god your weird ( says society). You want to listen music you actually like instead of all the mainstream piss out there? Your a fucking loser man waah ( society says once again). Crowd following and herd behavior are praised while being your own lord is looked down upon. Society encourages the worship of slave virtues instead of lordly ones. Which brings me to my next point: Society wants you to be respectable and professional, which basically amounts to being a slave to authority. Behave in the way we say you should behave say the holy cows ( aka teachers, priests, cops, lawmakers, and of course parents) because that is the " right" way. Never mind that we cant prove why it is right just do as we say so cause we are God. Respectable and professional behavior rules out many things such as tattoos, long hair on guys, getting drunk and rolling around in the mud, running around and screaming at the top of your lungs, etc. Now Im not saying that to be a truly independent and nonconformist person you must do these things or have tattoos ( and long hair if your a guy) but I must ask why are these things bad and others good? Why? Why is sitting at your desk reading a book considered respectable while getting drunk and rolling around in the mud is not? Why is wearing a suit and tie considered looking professional while wearing ripped up denim and leather is not?

I mean its just like with so called " bad words". Why is fuck ( for example ) considered to be a bad word? I mean did some all powerful deity come out of somewhere and tell us that " Thou shalt not say the word fuck for it is a bad word. Transgress my holy law and you will burn putrid mortals" If so then why doesnt he appear before us all now? Or wait is there some sort of objective truth showing machine that will tell you that this and this type of behavior is good while others are bad? No I dont think so. My point is that there is no objective profound truth out there in the universe that would validate the commands for so called respectable and professional behavior. Therefore getting drunk and rolling around in the mud is the same as sitting at a desk reading a book. Neither of these choices are unrespectable or " bad". They are only labeled such because of Society. Same thing with the clean cut suit and tie look vs the long haired denim and leather one. Its all personal choice. Neither is better than the other its just that Society favors one over the other. People should be allowed to make decisions like these ( and more important ones) for themselves but Society doesnt let them do so without passing judgement. Even though nobody asked Society to be a judge it still judges. And thats one major reason as to why it sucks.

Society also singles out certain people ( often totally at random and for no reason at all) and makes them outcasts. Yes there are people who become outcasts themselves but its a fact that society does this. Outcasts are always put in the second line for simply being outcasts and sometimes even " bullied" as most people say. Sure the harassment is usually done by a small group of society but the rest turns a blind eye to it. Very few within society take the side of the outcasts they only pretend to. And that brings me to another thing: Why should outcasts support any political movement since bascially all political movements are for the majority and outcasts are hated by the majority? Why should an outcast support the goals of people that he or she doesnt fit in with ? And no Im not bringing this up cause of personal reasons ( I wasnt bullied in school or what not before somebody tries making a joke or whatever) but I consider myself a champion of outcasts. I think of myself as their chosen knight, their champion. All these fucking political movements preach their sanctimonious crap about issues affecting the majority, why dont they do something for those who really need help? The true minority like the kid who is sidelined and looked down upon at school for no reason at all. Yeah the kid who sat all alone in the cafeteria and got nowhere while many of the current leaders of these movements were the big aces at the fucking Debate Team. Its real easy to focus on the problems of people who actually have it easy when the outcasts are left in the dirt. If your so holy then you should help the truly helpless people, people nobody even talks to.

Anyways Society has no good reasons for its commands and is no more than a pack of evil lies. I might add more but these are the main reasons as to why Society sucks.

Altair wrote:

And you guys say my replies are bad.

Altair's post simply summarises what you somehow stretched into 8 paragraphs of childish bitching and whining.

I think you're giving society a lot more credit than is due. Perhaps it's just me, but I really don't find that level of restriction to exist in society. Sure, violating societal norms, like being an American man and not watching the Super Bowl, can be found a bit strange by society, but people aren't going to hate you for it. They might think you're not "cool", but I have some bad news if you're an adult and care whether people think you're "cool" or not. There are some strict societal mores that would cause you to be ostracized and reviled if you violated them, but most of them are understandable, e.g., incest, and the ones that aren't, e.g., homosexuality, are presently losing their stigma.

DSN wrote:Altair's post simply summarises what you somehow stretched into 3 paragraphs of childish bitching and whining.

I could say the same about some of the things y'all post about Capitalism. Anytime you criticize something someone can crack open the cheap bottle of " oh your just whinin and bitchin" .

GF wrote:I think you're giving society a lot more credit than is due. Perhaps it's just me, but I really don't find that level of restriction to exist in society. Sure, violating societal norms, like being an American man and not watching the Super Bowl, can be found a bit strange by society, but people aren't going to hate you for it. They might think you're not "cool", but I have some bad news if you're an adult and care whether people think you're "cool" or not. There are some strict societal mores that would cause you to be ostracized and reviled if you violated them, but most of them are understandable, e.g., incest, and the ones that aren't, e.g., homosexuality, are presently losing their stigma.

Fair enough. Im not making out society to be the one big major problem. To me there isnt one but many problems. My point was to just " criticize".

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Fair enough. Im not making out society to be the one big major problem. To me there isnt one but many problems. My point was to just " criticize".

And besides, these enlightenment values spread and became the norm because human beings don't want to be living in a barbaric state of constant warfare and struggle to survive. I totally get what you're saying about the appeal of retaining some "barbarian" traits, and even the necessity of them to an extent, but for the most part people would rather live in peace and comfort.

I'm actually curious now, what are your opinions on the primitivist/anticivilization movements?

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:I could say the same about some of the things y'all post about Capitalism. Anytime you criticize something someone can crack open the cheap bottle of " oh your just whinin and bitchin" .

There's a difference between talking about genuine problems that affect real people in the real world (i.e. capitalism) which we seek to change, and you talking about some stupid little fantasy you have of running around with your Lieutenant Retard hat on waving a plastic sword at middle class people.

DSN wrote:There's a difference between talking about genuine problems that affect real people in the real world (i.e. capitalism) which we seek to change, and you talking about some stupid little fantasy you have of running around with your Lieutenant Retard hat on waving a plastic sword at middle class people.

I never wrote anything about running around waving a plastic sword or whatnot. All I did was criticize society.

GF wrote:And besides, these enlightenment values spread and became the norm because human beings don't want to be living in a barbaric state of constant warfare and struggle to survive. I totally get what you're saying about the appeal of retaining some "barbarian" traits, and even the necessity of them to an extent, but for the most part people would rather live in peace and comfort.

I'm actually curious now, what are your opinions on the primitivist/anticivilization movements?

I agree with their basic ideas, but I dont support any of them. Im not much of a primitivist either.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:
I never wrote anything about running around waving a plastic sword or whatnot. All I did was criticize society.

But we know what you are thinking and when you are thinking it.

Time to swap your horned helmet for a tin foil hat.

DSN wrote:But we know what you are thinking and when you are thinking it.

Time to swap your horned helmet for a tin foil hat.

Look all I did was write a post in which I criticized society for being conformist and looking down on so called non respectable behavior. I then gave a few examples, none of which included waving a plastic sword or wearing any kind of hat. This is not to say my post didnt include stuff that some might find ridiculous but I dont put that stuff in to take a piss. Im only adding humor and above all color to my posts. I am to posts what Motorhead or an even better example Venom was to music back in the day. I mean lots of people thought Venom was a bunch of nutcases making noise but they weren't. They were trying to make a statement in spite of looking and sounding ridiculous to some. Thats the same deal with my posts. Also you cant see inside my head so you dont actually know what Im thinking.