"Pride" in your culture/race/whatever

So we often hear the argument that you can't be "proud" of something you didn't do and that it's ignorant to take credit for what your forefathers have done, and I understand that this is, for the most part, a simple misunderstanding of the definition which we go by and what feelings hide behind the word in such a context. My question is, what exactly does it mean to be "proud" of your nation? In the usual sense of feeling good about one's own achievements, I could see why you would be proud of your children because you feel that you're a good parent for raising them well, but help me understand what this means when it comes to culture/nationality.

DSN wrote:So we often hear the argument that you can't be "proud" of something you didn't do and that it's ignorant to take credit for what your forefathers have done, and I understand that this is, for the most part, a simple misunderstanding of the definition which we go by and what feelings hide behind the word in such a context. My question is, what exactly does it mean to be "proud" of your nation? In the usual sense of feeling good about one's own achievements, I could see why you would be proud of your children because you feel that you're a good parent for raising them well, but help me understand what this means when it comes to culture/nationality.

To me, when I say I am proud of my heritage, it simply means that I have a great deal of respect for those who came before me, of who I am materially connected to. I share parts of their material being. The family should also be honored for the same reasons. It also has to do with accepting and respecting the entirety of the world, not just human diversity, but the diversity of life in general and understanding how you fit in, how you are and what makes you unique, discovering your own place in history, as well as how you can fit in and connect to those like you. This very fact means it is impossible for one to have REAL pride in their own ancestry while simultaneously viewing other people's heritage with contempt and disrespect.

In a general sense, the word is utilized to convey esteem for a particular facet of one's familial, cultural, or national customs, beliefs, or accomplishments. For example, one might proclaim to be "proud" of his or her nation's revolutionary past or a family member's participation in it. One might state that they are proud to live in a society which values "freedom." Simply put, the individual holds characteristics attributable to a particular construct in high regard.

In another, negative sense, the construct itself serves to validate the individual's own self-esteem. One might claim to take "pride" in holding certain exclusive membership within a real or imagined group over which they had no control. For example, when one asserts to take pride in being a member of the "white" race they falsely (and pitifully) attempt to elevate themselves by virtue of involuntary membership. "Racial" achievements are erroneously associated with personal status, despite the fact that such individuals frequently occupy positions of low social standing.

Ah I see, thanks for clearing that up for me. This is what I thought of briefly when trying to see it from the other side. I think it is really just the negative use of the word (by white nationalists et al) which a lot of people cling onto too much. Funny how white nationalists on Stormfront and the likes are apparently "superior" because of other great whites, yet no one has a goddamn clue who they are within their own town, let alone across the world.

I admire European lifestyle and culture as it is a part of my person. In order to be proud of material and biology, a person should have a direct significant influence on it as an individual in order to earn bragging rights. There isn't much I can say I'm proud of, but this fact alone doesn't discourage myself from acknowledging threats against what I have and combating them.

I think it has been mentioned with different words, but one can be proud of a set of values that your nation holds.

Scandinavian countries for example, take pride in their welfare-states, and americans are sometimes proud of their freedom.

When your race is dominating the economic structure and is largely oppressing other colours, showing displays of pride in your social construct is rather chauvinistic to say the least.

What are you proud of? you did not make any of the accomplishments of your racial predecessors, stop looking for something to be jingoistic about IMO.

SalfordAnarchist

SalfordAnarchist wrote:When your race is dominating the economic structure and is largely oppressing other colours, showing displays of pride in your social construct is rather chauvinistic to say the least.

What are you proud of? you did not make any of the accomplishments of your racial predecessors, stop looking for something to be jingoistic about IMO.

Do you feel proud of your friends when they do something? How about your siblings? Your children, parents, grandparents, neighbors? Pride is not limited to one's own actions. I'm proud of my parents, grandparents, siblings, close neighbors, ect. If you extend that, which it does naturally to most I think, to your culture and it's past then you cannot call it chauvinistic when this is not synonymous with the belief that your culture should dominate all others.

But if your white your race has enslaved, butchered and dominated and committed genocide.

Now If you want to take pride in white peoples accomplishments and good deeds, do you take shame and feel guilty for the bad things? If not that is hypocritical.

How about we take pride in ourselves and our good actions and feel ashamed for what we do and not what white men did in the past?

If we condemn white guilt that the liberals employ, we should also condemn white pride.

SalfordAnarchist

Pride is an emotion, not a philosophy. How you experience it depends on your mindset. You are also indicating that pride means taking ownership of something when that is not true in all cases.

All emotions are somewhat hypocritical in their general application.

Pride in a race, or the piece of rock you were born on is stupid, do you take pride in Steven Hawking because he is white and contributed to the scientific field but not Neil deGrasse Tyson because He is black?

How about we just take pride in our ability as a species, which is the only thing that makes sense?

SalfordAnarchist

SalfordAnarchist wrote:How about we just take pride in our ability as a species, which is the only thing that makes sense?

That is obviously the most sensible approach, and we should at least strive to be as rational as possible. However, I'm not going to berate someone for feeling something as benign as pride in their nation's accomplishments, or what have you. Pride can, however, transform into a malignant force, and we need to remain ever vigilant about that possibility so as to dose it out with the cold water of reason (to borrow a metaphor from Richard Lewontin) when it emerges in such a manner.

George Orwell patriotism was fine, as he was not proud of his nations history or dominance, He merely loved his countryside, the way English folks can be great to one another, this is something different than racial or national pride in the context Red was arguing for.

SalfordAnarchist

You don't know the specifics of what I was referring to as my personal pride. Quit the strawmen.

SalfordAnarchist wrote:George Orwell patriotism was fine, as he was not proud of his nations history or dominance, He merely loved his countryside, the way English folks can be great to one another, this is something different than racial or national pride in the context Red was arguing for.

SalfordAnarchist

He was not arguing that at all. You are the one who came into the thread talking about how "your race has enslaved, butchered and dominated and committed genocide."

You are seeing and arguing against things that aren't even there.

Yeah, these things never occurred, I made it all up for shits and giggles.

SalfordAnarchist

SalfordAnarchist wrote:Yeah, these things never occurred, I made it all up for shits and giggles.

SalfordAnarchist

Way to miss the point.

They never occured in that I never supported nor did any of those things or supported racism. You indicated that I did, but I did not. I'll ammend my previous request: quit the strawmen and the attempts at misdirection.