Working Class and Other Stuff

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote: Well personally Im all for spreading racism cause it raises a big middle finger to the mainstream.

Ok but racism is a natural thing as well. Also hatred is something that should be respected if its done in a true way. Theres always been way too much feel good lets be happy bullcrap in culture. Anything that kicks this fake ass stuff in the butt is something I look up to.

Of course it doesnt make sense but hating broccoli doesnt make sense either. Tons of things we like or hate in life ( from movies to food) dont have any sense behind it. Hate in itself doesnt hurt anyone or anything so I dont see why its wrong at all.

Well whatever lets just leave it at you do your own thing while I do mine.

Hmm I see well Marxism is not for me dude. I know its senseless to throw away something before taking a good look at it but hey this stuff just isnt my thing. Really the way I see it Socialism ( of the sort your into) is rooted in rationalism, materialism, and empiricism. The fifty cent words Im rooted in are idealism, heroicism, and spiritualism if you get my drift. If I could Id be more of a poet than a scholar. So anyways I might get more into this whole philosophical wankery ( as my English friends rightly call it) once I get really bored but this is it for now.

Have fun doing 'your own thing'. Based upon what I've deduced from your comments in this thread thus far, I can only imagine that the frivolity approaches something resembling this:

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Well personally Im all for spreading racism cause it raises a big middle finger to the mainstream.

Supporting the propagation of racism solely to get a rise out of upsetting "mainstream" society is idiotic and completely irresponsible. Life is problematic enough as it is, the last thing we need are numbskulls fomenting race prejudice. If you don't like certain racial groups, it's your right not to associate with them. Is that not enough to keep you content?

Ok but racism is a natural thing as well.

I already addressed this fallacy when I discussed the immense differences between benign subjective preferences and pathological hatreds—only the former of which may have a "natural" basis.

Also hatred is something that should be respected if its done in a true way. Theres always been way too much feel good lets be happy bullcrap in culture. Anything that kicks this fake ass stuff in the butt is something I look up to.

No one, least of all me, is suggesting that we should join hands in harmony with one another or any such nonsense. Certain individuals are indeed worthy of hatred, but people should be judged according to the content of their character. For example, I absolutely abhor rapists and child molesters because of the irreparable harm they cause, but that's completely different from hating someone because of their physical appearance (which no one has any control over, and which is harmless).

Of course it doesnt make sense but hating broccoli doesnt make sense either. Tons of things we like or hate in life ( from movies to food) dont have any sense behind it. Hate in itself doesnt hurt anyone or anything so I dont see why its wrong at all.

The difference is that broccoli doesn't vary to the profound extent individual members of racial groups do. In other words, it's ridiculous to hate entire races, because you don't personally know every member of those races, and would very likely get along with many of them if you did. I happen to detest most Mexicans associated with the Cholo subculture, but I don't indiscriminately hate all Mexican people as a result—how many elderly Mexican women, for instance, are worthy of actually hating?

this whole empowering/disempowering thing all boils down to personal taste.

Yes, but such 'tastes' are themselves influenced by exogenous forces. Some workers currently employed in jobs performing rote tasks may claim to prefer them over more creative work simply because they never viewed the alternative as representing a feasible option for them.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote: Hmm I see well Marxism is not for me dude. I know its senseless to throw away something before taking a good look at it but hey this stuff just isnt my thing. Really the way I see it Socialism ( of the sort your into) is rooted in rationalism, materialism, and empiricism. The fifty cent words Im rooted in are idealism, heroicism, and spiritualismif you get my drift. If I could Id be more of a poet than a scholar. So anyways I might get more into this whole philosophical wankery ( as my English friends rightly call it) once I get really bored but this is it for now.

Woah, woah, woah. As a person with a generally spiritual outlook on the world, how the HELL is getting drunk, rock and roll, and shouting racial slurs in any way shape or form spiritual, ideal, or HEROIC?

Anyway, personally, much like Jack London I find more idealism among the Socialist Revolutionaries than I do racists or fascists who are stuck clinging to their egotistical hatred and conception of a nation.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:I want fucking law and order to die man. That would be like Mad Max and that would be fucking cool. I mean can you imagine no more goddamn cops, bureaucrats, politicians, or anyone else telling you what to do? That seems fucking sweet to me. Id love to just get on my Harley and ride out slaying all the scum who got in my way. I think this is my " ideology": No more law and order. Only chaos, destruction, death, and other cool stuff you can only hear about in war metal songs.

You obviously have no idea what anarchism is about

I agree with rebel-warrior on one thing: Socialist and marxist theory is dry.

Other than that.... Did one of you guys create this character for shit and giggles?

He seem so very stereotypical.

Confusion wrote:I agree with rebel-warrior on one thing: Socialist and marxist theory is dry.

I do not understand what this means. "Dry" in what sense and as opposed to which other theories? I personally happen to think that Marxism is a highly incisive and rich mode of analysis, offering truly unique insights into the functioning of social formations. I hope that you are not conflating socialist economic and sociopolitical theory with political activism. It is the purpose of the latter to convey socialist ideas to the mass of the proletariat in a compelling and palatable manner, which regrettably necessitates some degree of marketing due to the inability of our contemporary consumerist societies for prolonged concentration.

"Dry" as in hard to read, easy to loose focus. (specially Lenin)

But I do realize that one needs both. Marketing, slogans, etcetera- and the heavy stuff.

Celtiberian wrote:Supporting the propagation of racism solely to get a rise out of angering "mainstream" society is idiotic and completely irresponsible. Life is problematic enough as it is, the last thing we need are numbskulls running around fomenting race prejudice. If you don't like certain racial groups, it's your right not to associate with them. Is that not enough to keep you content?

Ah come on Celt, your a punk rocker right? Surely you must have some respect for rebelling just for the hell of it. Keeping the old flame of rebellion alive is very important for me. Because that is youth you know. Once you start falling in line then your either too old or too scared. Also racism isnt the only thing I support to piss off the mainstream. Im all for drunkenness, riots, hardcore human hating devil worship, you name it. Put on your pentagrams, raise high your swastika flags, turn your amp up to 10, and fuck everyone is what I say. Oh and yeah Im happy to just avoid nonwhites. I just do fun stuff sometimes ( like yell slurs and play gigs at the local KKK chapter).

I already addressed this fallacy when I discussed the immense differences between benign subjective preferences and pathological hatreds—only the former of which may have a "natural" basis.

Fair enough

The difference is that broccoli doesn't vary to the profound extent individual members of racial groups do. In other words, it's ridiculous to hate entire races, because you don't personally know every member of those races, and would very likely get along with many of them if you did. I happen to detest most Mexicans associated with the Cholo subculture, but I don't indiscriminately hate all Mexican people as a result—how many elderly Mexican women, for instance, are worthy of actually hating?

Well hate is a bit strong for me to use. I dont hate every single nonwhite person. I just dislike them. The main thing with this race issue that bugs me is anti racists have too much power and influence ( which is why I rebel against them). If lets say they no longer had the government and fat cats on their side, then Id find something new to lash out against.

Yes, but such 'tastes' are themselves influenced by exogenous forces. A worker currently employed in job performing rote tasks may claim to prefer it over more creative work simply because he or she has never viewed the alternative as representing a feasible option for them.

You have a point but I know of jobs that Id really hate doing even though Ive never done them ( like accounting). Anyway I dont see why this whole thing needs to be focused on at all. Its up to people to try their hands at things anyway.

Pantheon Rising wrote:Woah, woah, woah. As a person with a generally spiritual outlook on the world, how the HELL is getting drunk, rock and roll, and shouting racial slurs in any way shape or form spiritual, ideal, or HEROIC?

Anyway, personally, much like Jack London I find more idealism among the Socialist Revolutionaries than I do racists or fascists who are stuck clinging to their egotistical hatred and conception of a nation.

Well dude what you do for kicks and your outlook on life are two different things. That being said rebellion can be thought of as idealist, heroic, and spiritual. Mean rebellion can be your ideal, you can think of it in mainly spiritual terms, and it can be heroic because it can cause you lots of problems which you will have to fight against like a hero.

Sure Socialists can be idealist theres just not much of it left nowadays. There is too much focus on hard economic facts and things that people will never fight for. Thats why there should be this mystical, ancient, warrior type of Socialism if you will. Or at least Socialism should be mixed with these things. Old warrior values should join together with a modern ideology. But I think Im getting ahead of myself. Oh and fascism is a load of horsehit. Sure Im a racist but the state can fuck off as far as Im concerned.

Confusion wrote:I agree with rebel-warrior on one thing: Socialist and marxist theory is dry.

Other than that.... Did one of you guys create this character for shit and giggles?

He seem so very stereotypical.

No I created this account myself. And ( not that Im butthurt by your comment or anything) but I dont think Im stereotypical at all. I mean I do lots of stereotypical stuff but honestly how many Hungarian redneck headbangers do you see writing on forums like this ( using big words from time to time I might add)? I am a very strange bird indeed.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Ah come on Celt, your a punk rocker right? Surely you must have some respect for rebelling just for the hell of it.

Yes, I consider myself a punk rocker, but you're confusing the actual subculture with the MTV/Hot Topic parody thereof. Some young kids interested in punk rock fashion and a few immature bands may espouse your "rebel without a cause" pseudophilosophy, but the segment of the subculture I've always most identified with are those bands and individuals who are rebelling against a system they consider to be illegitimate and social mores they find unjustifiable.

Keeping the old flame of rebellion alive is very important for me. Because that is youth you know. Once you start falling in line then your either too old or too scared.

Unless I'm mistaken, you're already an adult. "Sticking it to the man" (i.e., upsetting authority figures just for the sake of it) and other such frivolities are understandable for teenagers to engage in, but you're not going to look back on your life and consider that to have been an especially worthwhile use of your finite time on this planet. I'm not suggesting that people should abstain from partaking in relatively trivial leisure time activities, but a balance should be struck between petty nonsense and finding self-actualization in meaningful work or activism.

Also racism isnt the only thing I support to piss off the mainstream. Im all for drunkenness, riots, hardcore human hating devil worship, you name it. Put on your pentagrams, raise high your swastika flags, turn your amp up to 10, and fuck everyone is what I say.

Has it ever occurred to you that society may have a legitimate reason to scorn such behavior? In your egotistical pursuit of self-gratification, you needlessly disrupt other people's lives, for example.

I just do fun stuff sometimes ( like yell slurs and play gigs at the local KKK chapter).

You're not doing yourself any favors by associating with Klansmen, of all people. (Perhaps this explains your sudden decline in intellect?)

Anyway I dont see why this whole thing needs to be focused on at all. Its up to people to try their hands at things anyway.

It needs to be focused on precisely because most people are prohibited from 'trying their hands at' empowering forms of labor, and this has implications for how we analyze class and the manner by which we choose to structure post-capitalist institutions.

There is too much focus on hard economic facts and things that people will never fight for.

Excuse me, but we focus on things (e.g., social justice) which people have in fact fought for throughout history and will inevitably fight for again.

Thats why there should be this mystical, ancient, warrior type of Socialism if you will. Or at least Socialism should be mixed with these things. Old warrior values should join together with a modern ideology.

If you want to dwell on such garbage, I recommend joining a neo-pagan social club. In no way will "mystical, ancient, warrior" dogmas assist in the class struggle.

how many Hungarian redneck headbangers do you see writing on forums like this

You may not be permitted to do so for much longer if the quality of your posts fails to change. We've already received several complaints about this thread and requests that your account be banned. I really don't want to resort to that course of action, so I seriously recommend that you cease in writing troll posts.

This thread is hereby closed.