Revleft: A basically liberal website

Many here may know about the website, www.revleft.com. So far, I have gone through it and found it to be a very worthless liberal one. As per a survey done by the website itself, most of the users there are either undergraduate students or unemployed youth and very very few are actual industrial workers. Moreover, thought they call themselves REVOLUTIONARY LEFTIST, but participation from countries like Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea is practically nil.
I am just requesting readers here not to be fooled by the "MILITANT" outlook of this website and stay away from at as far as possible. It's nothing but a bunch of liberal scums accumulated there just to spend their leisure time. There is no useful information in it and IN SHORT IT'S NOTHING BUT A WORTHLESS WASTAGE OF TIME.

RevI wrote:Many here may know about the website, www.revleft.com. So far, I have gone through it and found it to be a very worthless liberal one. As per a survey done by the website itself, most of the users there are either undergraduate students or unemployed youth and very very few are actual industrial workers. Moreover, thought they call themselves REVOLUTIONARY LEFTIST, but participation from countries like Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea is practically nil.
I am just requesting readers here not to be fooled by the "MILITANT" outlook of this website and stay away from at as far as possible. It's nothing but a bunch of liberal scums accumulated there just to spend their leisure time. There is no useful information in it and IN SHORT IT'S NOTHING BUT A WORTHLESS WASTAGE OF TIME.

Ok, I'm an undergrad student so you can fuck off if you think that I can't be a leftist because of it. You're one to talk, defending the monarchy of North Korea with it's bullshit of 'superior bloodlines'. If Cuba and Venezuela were actually revolutionary and socialistic, there would be no class, no rich, no poor, no money, no state. Both Cuba and Venezuela have all of those things and the means of production are not democratically held by the people (except in very few cases in Venezuela but then again the United States is home to some worker-owned factories itself). You have no idea what you're talking about and insulting people just because they don't fit your example of the archetypal worker is pathetic. If you're going to insult someone the least you can do is not make it personal, you just come across as an asshole.

Red Aegis wrote:Ok, I'm an undergrad student so you can fuck off if you think that I can't be a leftist because of it. You're one to talk, defending the monarchy of North Korea with it's bullshit of 'superior bloodlines'. If Cuba and Venezuela were actually revolutionary and socialistic, there would be no class, no rich, no poor, no money, no state. Both Cuba and Venezuela have all of those things and the means of production are not democratically held by the people (except in very few cases in Venezuela but then again the United States is home to some worker-owned factories itself). You have no idea what you're talking about and insulting people just because they don't fit your example of the archetypal worker is pathetic. If you're going to insult someone the least you can do is not make it personal, you just come across as an asshole.

Actually by saying N Korea a monarchy, you have shown your actual color. You are undergrad and it's also clear from your posts that you have little idea of ground reality of probably your own country, leaving aside elsewhere on earth. After all, at least I can say the workers in Cuba and Venezuela is in better condition and has more rights than their counterparts especially in Asia, Africa and Latin America. They have achieved some good achievement and all your post is just example that you howl too much and can do little.
First, try to learn something and then howl at net. Probably that will be best for you and better for people like me.

Did I say that there were no improvements in Cuba and Venezuela? No I did not. What I did say is that they are in no way socialist. I called N Korea a Monarchy as an insult you fool. It's an autocratic dictatorship with a veil of democracy. Your last and third to last sentences do not make sense, there may be a language barrier there. What I think that you are saying is that I am impotent and ignorant. I am certainly not impotent and you have no way of proving the contrary. I may not be the most theoretically advanced person here, but I am no imbecile. You are the one that started this so be the mature archetypal worker that you idolize so much and admit that you were the one who threw the first insult.

Red Aegis wrote:Did I say that there were no improvements in Cuba and Venezuela? No I did not. What I did say is that they are in no way socialist. I called N Korea a Monarchy as an insult you fool. It's an autocratic dictatorship with a veil of democracy. Your last and third to last sentences do not make sense, there may be a language barrier there. What I think that you are saying is that I am impotent and ignorant. I am certainly not impotent and you have no way of proving the contrary. I may not be the most theoretically advanced person here, but I am no imbecile. You are the one that started this so be the mature archetypal worker that you idolize so much and admit that you were the one who threw the first insult.

Instead of howling, better have some understanding of my words. I have said countries like Cuba, Venezuela and never mentioned in my first post that they have already become socialist, but at least I know that they are ahead of us in this road. Therefore, their i.e. workers and people from those countries.
N Korea, despite being a "Monarchy" is far ahead of many "Democracies" like India in HDI despite crippling sanctions. I myself want to be a "monarchist" N Kore than "Democratic" India.

Good for you.

Red Aegis wrote:You're one to talk, defending the monarchy of North Korea with it's bullshit of 'superior bloodlines'.

I think you should stick to revleft then, You're a liberal and obviously not a nationalist. If you think NK thrives off the ideology of "superior blood" rather than the truth of refraining from American trade and loss of culture; Then you never actually did your homework on NK.
P.S. you come off as an asshole defending revleft on SP...

Did I defend revleft or the right to be a leftist and an undergrad? He was also calling you an impotent non-leftist due to your age. It's good to attack ageism when one sees it.

I support a socialist revolution, so it's impossible for me to be a Liberal. The word Liberal actually has a philosophical definition if you didn't know. It's not just an insult to be thrown at anyone that disagrees with you.

Look up the Juche: Ideology of Victory thread. It explicitly says that leadership in North Korea is culled from the "superior bloodline" of the Kim family.

It's nice that you not only defend an ageist that is insulting you as well, butcher philosophical definitions into meaningless drivel, and try to tell me where I belong when you only have one post.

Red Aegis wrote:Did I defend revleft or the right to be a leftist and an undergrad? He was also calling you an impotent non-leftist due to your age. It's good to attack ageism when one sees it.

I support a socialist revolution, so it's impossible for me to be a Liberal. The word Liberal actually has a philosophical definition if you didn't know. It's not just an insult to be thrown at anyone that disagrees with you.

Look up the Juche: Ideology of Victory thread. It explicitly says that leadership in North Korea is culled from the "superior bloodline" of the Kim family.

It's nice that you not only defend an ageist that is insulting you as well, butcher philosophical definitions into meaningless drivel, and try to tell me where I belong when you only have one post.

This is post another example of inability to understand. What I want to say in my first post is that. workers can be more leftist than grad or undergrad students, there may be exceptions but that's general. But, from the very beginning this guy has jumped on me like a bloodhound taking everything personally.
IMO, what N Korea is can be understood being a citizen of that place there and I want to leave the duty of changing the country to the workers there.

Marx was a philosopher, early political economist and journalist of middle class background. Friedrich Engels was an industrialist. Lenin was a lawyer of middle class background. Fidel Castro was a lawyer (former radical student as well) whose father was a wealthy land owner in a small impoverished country. Ernesto "Che" Guevara was a medical doctor. What do they all have in common? They were not "actual industrial workers".

I do agree that there is something inherently wrong with a leftist movement that lacks the requisite proletarian component. That problem can be largely attributed to two pernicious contradictions. The first being the [subconscious] class bias that much of the Western "left" maintains against the actual working class; the second being the subcultural character it has assumed (largely as an outgrowth of that class bias). These factors, I contend, are far more objectionable than the mere involvement of members of the bourgeoisie and coordinator class within socialistic movements.

RevI wrote:Many here may know about the website, www.revleft.com. So far, I have gone through it and found it to be a very worthless liberal one. As per a survey done by the website itself, most of the users there are either undergraduate students or unemployed youth and very very few are actual industrial workers. Moreover, thought they call themselves REVOLUTIONARY LEFTIST, but participation from countries like Cuba, Venezuela, N Korea is practically nil.
I am just requesting readers here not to be fooled by the "MILITANT" outlook of this website and stay away from at as far as possible. It's nothing but a bunch of liberal scums accumulated there just to spend their leisure time. There is no useful information in it and IN SHORT IT'S NOTHING BUT A WORTHLESS WASTAGE OF TIME.

I agree with you, insofar as RevLeft is indeed a waste of time. However, I take issue with a few of your reasons for disliking that forum. For example, you stress that there is little participation from North Korean, Venezuelan, or Cuban people on RevLeft. As far as I know, the average citizen in those nations doesn't possess an individual computer, let alone unfiltered internet access. Then, you criticize the fact that most of their members are students, as opposed to industrial workers. Well, most citizens in Western nations today aren't members of the industrial proletariat either; they are primarily service sector employees—as you know, manufacturing has become much more capital intensive in recent decades and has offshored to the global south to a large extent. Moreover, many important revolutionary figures in history were not proletarians either (Marx, Engels, and Lenin, to name but a few).

Random789654 wrote:P.S. you come off as an asshole defending revleft on SP...

I think everyone needs to cease with the personal insults on this thread. Let us have a rational debate, like adults.

The problem is, many leaders have arouse so far from "non-industrial worker" class, but that inherently doesn't make those classes revolutionary or at par with proletariat.
None here attacked students, but if maximum member of a website is student, then certainly doubts come first regarding the proper character of that website.

Celtiberian wrote:I agree with you, insofar as RevLeft is indeed a waste of time. However, I take issue with a few of your reasons for disliking that forum. For example, you stress that there is little participation from North Korean, Venezuelan, or Cuban people on RevLeft. As far as I know, the average citizen in those nations doesn't possess an individual computer, let alone unfiltered internet access. Then, you criticize the fact that most of their members are students, as opposed to industrial workers. Well, most citizens in Western nations today aren't members of the industrial proletariat either; they are primarily service sector employees—as you know, manufacturing has become much more capital intensive in recent decades and has offshored to the global south to a large extent. Moreover, many important revolutionary figures in history were not proletarians either (Marx, Engels, and Lenin, to name but a few).

I myself consider service sector employees as workers too as they sell their power to labor to their employer. To me, all of those are workers, who are doing repeatable jobs and sold their power to labor to their employer. Service sector employees certainly fall into that category and afterall, IMO, service is also an industry now, well organized.
I think I better use the word organized labor rather than industrial workers for better clearing. I also have doubt that average people of Cuba, N Korea, Venezuela doesn't possess their own PC. Every country has their own filtration system on net, so they cannot be exceptions. What I think that they feel less interest in English language and English based sites at all.

RevI wrote:The problem is, many leaders have arouse so far from "non-industrial worker" class, but that inherently doesn't make those classes revolutionary or at par with proletariat.

No one is suggesting that the petite bourgeoisie or coordinator class are inherently revolutionary. The point is that it would be illogical to think that members of those social classes will be absent in the revolutionary leadership. Intellectuals, for example, have ample time to study political economy and the laws of history. Consequently, they may come to understand exploitation, sympathize with the proletariat, and seek to ally with class conscious workers in the overthrow of the dictatorship of capital.

None here attacked students, but if maximum member of a website is student, then certainly doubts come first regarding the proper character of that website.

Or it's reflective of the general state of class consciousness within the proletariat. The global economic crises and ensuing austerity is beginning to free many workers of the state of false consciousness they've been under, but we're still only in the preliminary stages of this development. The established socialist and communist parties in the global north are partially to blame for things progressing so slowly, due to their marginalizing the class struggle (in favor of fringe identity politics) in recent decades.

I myself consider service sector employees as workers too as they sell their power to labor to their employer. To me, all of those are workers, who are doing repeatable jobs and sold their power to labor to their employer. Service sector employees certainly fall into that category and afterall, IMO, service is also an industry now, well organized.

They are obviously members of the working class, but, unlike the industrial proletariat, many of them do not produce surplus value. They play an essential role in enabling the realization of profit to occur, but there is still a difference between productive and non-productive labor. Their plight is the same (like industrial workers, they are wage laborers who are exploited by the bourgeoisie), but their economic role is different. Traditionally, special priory was given to industrial workers by many Marxists, but that simply wouldn't make sense in contemporary Western nations.

I also have doubt that average people of Cuba, N Korea, Venezuela doesn't possess their own PC. Every country has their own filtration system on net, so they cannot be exceptions. What I think that they feel less interest in English language and English based sites at all.

Internet cafés probably provide access to a significant percentage of Cuban and Venezuelan citizens today, but we cannot be sure which websites are filtered out. I also agree that the language barrier likely discourages interest in English-language revolutionary forums.