U.S. Soldier in Iraq Talking Down to Iraqi Police

Our pride and joy. Where would we be without this exemplary patriot fighting not simply for our own freedom, but that of Iraq? Such a fine and inspirational speech that truly portrays our national virtues.

I have an idea: let us provide this piece of shit—I mean, national hero—with even more benefits once he returns home from the crusade. We can slash other nonessential services such as Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, education, and unemployment relief. We could also simply increase the tax burden of the working class. What do you all say?

/sarcasm.

Indeed. I do sincerely hope that the poor in this country are overcome with patriotic fervor when their children lose their health care coverage (à la Medicaid) and education funding, while our 'best and brightest' in uniform continue to enjoy their G.I. Bill benefits, federal pensions, and socialized medicine. But, of course, 'the troops' deserve their federal benefits. Working people, on the other hand, are a bunch of freeloading welfare queens.

Incidentally, I wonder if the 'brilliant' officer in the video considered that it might not be particularly wise to suggest that he, of all people, was a better judge of what constitutes Iraqi patriotism than an entire platoon of Iraqi policemen.

Well for a start that video is a few years old and at the time coalition forces were takeing heavy casulties in Iraq.I belive this officers anoyance towards his IPS comrades is there lack of fighting spirirt and rightly so he and his comrades cant go home until Iraqi forces stand on there own feet as they do to an extent now.Id be saying some of the same things if I was hi, ME people dont like being told they cannot fight and act like women ect,now did this motivation work? who knows.

Ive got dramas towards the insurgents if I was a young Iraqi sunni id have been an insurgent to defend my tribe, and if I was a shiite to defend my tribe and to increase my tribe/familys influence id have been an insurgent and a members of the ISF

We all know the war is wrong we all know its was done for imperialistic corperate reasons but I hope this thread does not decend into squaddie bashing.As for the benifits those men and women recive the armed forces isnt a glamourous job so they encentivise people rightlt or wrongly to join.

TheocWulf wrote:Well for a start that video is a few years old and at the time coalition forces were takeing heavy casulties in Iraq.I belive this officers anoyance towards his IPS comrades is there lack of fighting spirirt and rightly so he and his comrades cant go home until Iraqi forces stand on there own feet as they do to an extent now.Id be saying some of the same things if I was hi, ME people dont like being told they cannot fight and act like women ect,now did this motivation work? who knows.

Ive got dramas towards the insurgents if I was a young Iraqi sunni id have been an insurgent to defend my tribe, and if I was a shiite to defend my tribe and to increase my tribe/familys influence id have been an insurgent and a members of the ISF

We all know the war is wrong we all know its was done for imperialistic corperate reasons but I hope this thread does not decend into squaddie bashing.As for the benifits those men and women recive the armed forces isnt a glamourous job so they encentivise people rightlt or wrongly to join.

This individual was entrenched in his own reactionary rut, not merely expressing the views of an "annoyed" officer. He had no legitimate reason to be "annoyed" (he struck me as far more than irritated), and I can state this despite my lack of knowledge regarding the specific nature of the circumstance. For one, who is he to admonish a group of Iraqi policemen as to which fellow Iraqis to engage in armed conflict? Was his approach toward that end reasonable? Yes, but only if one possesses the warlord mentality typical amongst the drones of the imperial army. He claimed ostensibly to be unwilling to "sacrifice" his own inferiors, but had no qualms about despicably compelling Iraqi citizens in authority positions to combat other Iraqis who were deemed to oppose the interests of the United States. This, comrade, is disgusting reaction. Perhaps this patriotard should reconsider the justifications for the war in the first place and our genuine strategic initiatives in it, eh?

As far as "squaddie bashing" is concerned, I will present it in a manner that you may either choose to accept or decline: f*ck the U.S., and f*ck the U.S. military.

As far as "squaddie bashing" is concerned, I will present it in a manner that you may either choose to accept or decline: f*ck the U.S., and f*ck the U.S. military.

Intresting if you would said that about a minority group there would be outcry from the forum.Also why start this thread in the first place? im sure you could find people saying all sorts of reactionary things in any institution im just abit puzzeled why you started this thread,did your bird get smashed by a squaddie or something?

TheocWulf wrote:Intresting if you would said that about a minority group there would be outcry from the forum.Also why start this thread in the first place? im sure you could find people saying all sorts of reactionary things in any institution im just abit puzzeled why you started this thread,did your bird get smashed by a squaddie or something?

Refrain from antagonizing fellow members of the forum.

Guidelines of the Socialist Phalanx

Let that serve as a warning. There is no need to make this a personal matter.

Rev Scare is entitled to his opinion on this matter, as is every member here. If you don't like it, feel free to debate the issue in a civil capacity.

Incidentally, I find your attempted insult to be rather ironic considering the fact that it is often deployed military personnel that come to learn that their 'birds' were getting 'smashed' back at home while they were deployed. Ever hear of a 'Dear John letter'?

Well, let's not go around bashing each other because of the US military now. Love them or hate them (and i sure don't love the "full metal jacket" wannabe in the video) many in the military are still working class to me, if not being used to directly counter-revolutionary purposes. Of course, everything that the US military does is reactionary and imperialist, but let's not forget that many people are forced via capitalist society forces to join, so i see them as ultimately not so different from those who commit crimes due to poverty or social and economic tensions (London riots spring to mind).

Leon Mcnichol wrote:Well, let's not go around bashing each other because of the US military now. Love them or hate them (and i sure don't love the "full metal jacket" wannabe in the video) many in the military are still working class to me, if not being used to directly counter-revolutionary purposes. Of course, everything that the US military does is reactionary and imperialist, but let's not forget that many people are forced via capitalist society forces to join, so i see them as ultimately not so different from those who commit crimes due to poverty or social and economic tensions (London riots spring to mind).

Well, the 'criminals' in question function in a capacity that undermines the bourgeois establishment, whilst military men and women function in a capacity that safeguards it. This is a qualitative difference that should not be marginalized. (It is important to understand the role that each segment of the working class plays in maintaining the bourgeois system.) However, I do appreciate the overall essence of your point.

Incidentally, I find your attempted insult to be rather ironic considering the fact that it is often deployed military personnel that come to learn that their 'birds' were getting 'smashed' back at home while they were deployed. Ever hear of a 'Dear John letter'?

Perhaps you have never lived in garrision area in the UK then.Yea the blokes sometimes get dear johns but from my observations its normally the civvies that end up haveing thier birds taken.Trust me being in/near a garrision area is no fun when angsty lads from all over the UK who have been almost locked up all week decend on your quiet night out.

Most soldiers are apolitical and couldnt care less about the system and certainly wouldnt go out of there way to defend an unpopular one if that was the will of the people.90% of them are working folk like you and I who join for economic reasons in the minority but the majority join for abit of an adventure or for family tradition.

Admin wrote:Well, the 'criminals' in question function in a capacity that undermines the bourgeois establishment, whilst military men and women function in a capacity that safeguards it. This is a qualitative difference that should not be marginalized. (It is important to understand the role that each segment of the working class plays in maintaining the bourgeois system.) However, I do appreciate the overall essence of your point.

Are you saying members of the armed forces are counter revolutionary?

TheocWulf wrote:Perhaps you have never lived in garrision area in the UK then.Yea the blokes sometimes get dear johns but from my observations its normally the civvies that end up haveing thier birds taken.Trust me being in/near a garrision area is no fun when angsty lads from all over the UK who have been almost locked up all week decend on your quiet night out.

Most soldiers are apolitical and couldnt care less about the system and certainly wouldnt go out of there way to defend an unpopular one if that was the will of the people.90% of them are working folk like you and I who join for economic reasons in the minority but the majority join for abit of an adventure or for family tradition.

I understand that the majority of soldiers are working class individuals (a circumstance that itself can hardly be thought a coincidence), and I even appreciate the noble aspects of serving one's nation militarily; of sacrificing for one's duties during combat. Nonetheless, this is an ideal—one that is far removed from present reality—and I will not laud political actions simply due to the fact that they are undertaken by a significant segment of the working class. Both Republicans and Democrats command a considerable working class following. Does this indicate that I should support the decisions of those working class individuals who affiliate with either bourgeois party? Of course not. In the same vein, I will not extol imperial soldiers whose aggregate behavior results in social processes that I find to be repugnant.

I would also find the claim that such disgraceful scenes as the one displayed in the video are merely isolated incidents with no bearing upon the greater progression of the war to be doubtful. Self-righteousness permeates the ranks of our military—a phenomenon that is most probably universal as far as military operations are concerned, but one that is not in my view justified within the scope of this context.

TheocWulf wrote:Are you saying members of the armed forces are counter revolutionary?

Absolutely.

Rev Scare wrote:Absolutely.

Really?

English regiments that came out for parliment during the civil war
English Levellers Regiments after the civil war
Russian army and navy during the revolution
Members of the German navy in the Kiel revolt
The Libyan armed forces
The Iranian Miliatry
Venezuelan units led by Chaves
Serb military and police units joining with protesters to oust milosovich
These are just the ones of the top of my head

TheocWulf wrote:Really?

English regiments that came out for parliment during the civil war
English Levellers Regiments after the civil war
Russian army and navy during the revolution
Members of the German navy in the Kiel revolt
The Libyan armed forces
The Iranian Miliatry
Venezuelan units led by Chaves
Serb military and police units joining with protesters to oust milosovich
These are just the ones of the top of my head

I was under the impression that you were referring to members of the armed forces in the contemporary West. Military service in and of itself is obviously not counterrevolutionary.

Rev Scare wrote:I was under the impression that you were referring to members of the armed forces in the contemporary West. Military service in and of itself is obviously not counterrevolutionary.

Well I am in a way.Modern soldiers arnt robots and there is no reason to belive they wont act as there ancestors have done in the past when the conditions are right.

Now in my opinion in Europe the revolution will only succed with the help of the majority of those nations armed forces on side probably led by more junior officers granted but we will need them.

Now America is a diffrent kettle of fish the US working class can fight due to its access to firearms but it will be a very long bloody struggle against the worlds best equiped proffesional armed forces but it could be done (Take the American revolution for example) but I just dont fancy that for the English/British people.