Zionism

Celtiberian wrote:Three of these four individuals were economists—only one of which (Ricardo) contributed anything of value to the discipline—so their influence on liberal thought is virtually nonexistent. Moreover, Murray Rothbard was among the most illiberal members of the Austrian school of economics (he was a paleoconservative whose political philosophy even influences apologists for monarchism, such as Hans-Hermann Hoppe).

Isnt economics the holy cow of Liberalism? I mean dont Marxists believe that the only reason Liberalism exists is to justify Capitalism? Anyways your right that Liberalism wasnt directly invented by Jews but Jews were very much active in spreading ( by way of newspapers f.ex) it in certain countries.

Though it's undeniable that Jews have disproportionally been involved in high finance throughout history, it's largely attributable to the fact that they were prohibited from participating in most other trades and professions for majority of their time in Europe. Karl Marx, a staunch critic of these Jewish financiers, put the matter well when he wrote: "The fact that 1855 years ago Christ drove the Jewish money-changers out of the temple, and that the money-changers of our age enlisted on the side of tyranny happen again chiefly to be Jews, is perhaps no more than a historical coincidence. The loan-mongering Jews of Europe do only on a larger and more obnoxious scale what many others do on one smaller and less significant" [“The Russian Loan” by Karl Marx (New York Tribune, January 4, 1856) in Eleanor Marx Aveling (ed.), The Eastern Question: A Reprint of Letters Written 1853-1856 Dealing with the Events of the Crimean War (London: Swan Sonnenschein & Co., 1897), p. 606].

Those who ignore the structural pressures responsible for the phenomenon and instead frame the issue as one regarding the 'congenital wickedness of the Jewish race,' or what have you, reveal nothing but their own ignorance.

I dont believe the Jews are a wicked race or that they have this big conspiracy against Gentiles. The thing is , like you said, they are much more likely ( even today) to enter these jobs because of tradition and that makes a vicious cycle. Even more important than this Jews have very much been a bad influence overall in many of the countries they reside in. I mean today you see their endless scapegoating of people because of the Holocaust, their lambasting of native cultures in the media, huge support of what you call cosmopolitan stuff etc. That is why I think it would be best if they went back to their Holy Land because they are a nuisance everywhere else.

By no means is every political ideology "based on values that come from Christianity." And even if one could draw parallels between Christian morality and the ethical principles which animate certain political philosophies, it wouldn't necessarily indicate a direct link. (Two individuals can come to similar conclusions through radically different means.)

The Christian morality thing is a big topic better suited for another thread but enough to say that isnt weird that so many ideologies share the same basic moral ideas as Christianity? I mean even so called secular humanist values come in large part from the " Golden Rule" and so forth. Thats what Im talking about.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Isnt economics the holy cow of Liberalism?

The study of economics—which is what the individuals you listed specialized in—is a facet of liberalism, but it entails much more than that. Among other things, liberalism represents the abolition of the political and social privileges associated with the ancien régime. Secularism, republicanism, and rationalism are all the fruit of liberal thought. That isn't to say it represents the 'end of history,' or that it's an ideal order (far from it), but rather that it's an advancement over some of the elements that characterized previous historical epochs.

I mean dont Marxists believe that the only reason Liberalism exists is to justify Capitalism?

We believe that the reason certain Enlightenment values were adopted was because they were essential for the bourgeoisie to successfully overthrow the monarchical order—and the bourgeoisie came into existence because of technological innovations which revolutionized the manner by which commodities were produced.

Anyways your right that Liberalism wasnt directly invented by Jews but Jews were very much active in spreading ( by way of newspapers f.ex) it in certain countries.

Again, the bourgeoisie (gentile and Jewish alike) were responsible for the proliferation of liberal thought.

I dont believe the Jews are a wicked race or that they have this big conspiracy against Gentiles. The thing is , like you said, they are much more likely ( even today) to enter these jobs because of tradition and that makes a vicious cycle.

The solution isn't to remove Jews from society, because that would merely result in a higher percentage of gentiles entering into those admittedly exploitative professions. If the problem is finance, and not the individuals who occupy positions in the field, the solution would instead be to change the manner by which the industry functions; and collectivizing financial institutions—thereby transforming them into public utilities—would yield the most desirable results.

Even more important than this Jews have very much been a bad influence overall in many of the countries they reside in. I mean today you see their endless scapegoating of people because of the Holocaust, their lambasting of native cultures in the media, huge support of what you call cosmopolitan stuff etc.

You're overgeneralizing. For instance, the Jews who exploit the memory of Holocaust for political purposes or personal gain are typically Zionist extremists, and there are plenty of other principled Jews who criticize such practices (e.g., Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky). As for cosmopolitanism, there are just as many gentile advocates of the theory as there are Jewish ones.

That is why I think it would be best if they went back to their Holy Land because they are a nuisance everywhere else.

Even if your premise were correct, your conclusion wouldn't follow. If Jews aren't intrinsically evil, as your readily concede, that means they can be persuaded into abandoning socially harmful practices and beliefs through education and rational dialog.

The Christian morality thing is a big topic better suited for another thread but enough to say that isnt weird that so many ideologies share the same basic moral ideas as Christianity? I mean even so called secular humanist values come in large part from the " Golden Rule" and so forth. Thats what Im talking about.

Like Peter Kropotkin, I believe there are biological and ecological factors which influence our affinity for cooperative behavior and following ethical principles such as the "Golden Rule." Culture and the social relations of production can either stifle or promote such behavior, but it's ultimately rooted within man himself.

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:

Red Aegis wrote:Shut up dumbass.

Now thats a very smart reply.

You deserve nothing more, you pathetic clown.

Rev Scare wrote:You deserve nothing more, you pathetic clown.

If you think your going to hurt my feelings think again. Also this post alone shows that your not much better than I am even though you may think so. Insult me as much as you want Rev, Im not going to return the favor from behind a keyboard.

Celtiberian wrote:The study of economics—which is what the individuals you listed specialized in—is a facet of liberalism, but it entails much more than that. Among other things, liberalism represents the abolition of the political and social privileges associated with the ancien régime. Secularism, republicanism, and rationalism are all the fruit of liberal thought. That isn't to say it represents the 'end of history,' or that it's an ideal order (far from it), but rather that it's an advancement over some of the elements that characterized previous historical epochs.

Well yes fair enough Liberalism isnt only about economics. It just seems that today it is. I mean sure you can put " Libertarianism" into a whole different box but to me thats just another word for Liberalism.

Even if your premise were correct, your conclusion wouldn't follow. If Jews aren't intrinsically evil, as your readily concede, that means they can be persuaded into abandoning socially harmful practices and beliefs through education and rational dialog.

Come to think of it I could go more into detail as to why I think Jews are a bad influence but most of my argument would be based in moral/religious reasoning and since this forum isnt about that kind of stuff I wouldnt see the point of writing it. Enough to say that my argument is basically the same as that of people like De Benoist. Jews have brought a unhealthy mentality to many places that is based on a universalist monotheist morality and they are also a people apart which makes them a foreign element everywhere outside their homeland. Foreign elements in my view cause a lot of bad blood in countries not their own ( especially in the case of the Jews) so its best that these elements live separately amongst themselves.

Im pretty sure this is all I can write about the topic. Time will tell but for now other people can take over the thread

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:If you think your going to hurt my feelings think again. Also this post alone shows that your not much better than I am even though you may think so. Insult me as much as you want Rev, Im not going to return the favor from behind a keyboard.

Believe me, resident troglodyte, I would love to settle matters with you away from the keyboard in true "barbarian" fashion at this point. I would have permabanned you long ago were it not for the fact that it would in all likelihood inspire your return in a more contemptible form.

Rev Scare wrote:Believe me, resident troglodyte, I would love to settle matters with you away from the keyboard in true "barbarian" fashion at this point. I would have permabanned you long ago were it not for the fact that it would in all likelihood inspire your return in a more contemptible form.

You call me pathetic yet your pretty much saying you would love to fight me on an online forum of all places ? Thats rich. Im not going to trade insults or talk about " settling matters" on an online forum cause this isnt real life. If you thought I was challenging you to a fight then your very much mistaken. Writing stuff like that on the Net , as you know, is the mark of a wannabe.

Anyways have fun hating on an unknown person, I for one wont be writing back to these type of posts any longer.

You should see to it that you spend the rest of your worthless (and hopefully brief) life far away from this forum instead, not responding to anyone and certainly not typing any more lengthy and inane posts.

Rev Scare wrote:You should see to it that you spend the rest of your worthless (and hopefully brief) life far away from this forum instead, not responding to anyone and certainly not typing any more lengthy and inane posts.

Ha, ha, ha. You crack me up.

Isakenaz wrote:Ha, ha, ha. You crack me up.

Is there anything in particular you care to express, dear Isa?

I would have to say that I have a lot of respect for Ze'ev Jabotinsky and Theodor Herzl.  However, the continued existence of the diaspora outside Israel is a big problem.  The Jewish state should be a state for Jews only, and also the only state for the Jews.  The ethnic chauvinism and religious supremacist ideology of Zionism dictates that the Jews must have a 'holy land' for themselves only, yet at the same time, must also have control over all other peoples, who they view as cattle (goyim).  This is fundamentally an imperialistic ideology, which places the Jewish people over all others - due to the fantasy of being 'chosen' by their deity for that purpose.

The treatment of the Palestinians and the ethnic, cultural and religious cleansing of everyone except the self-chosen in the Jewish State wasn't even necessary for the Jews to have a homeland.  Stalin gave the Jews their own territory in Biro-Bidjan, which should have been enough for Jews to observe their religious and cultural practices.  Taking a piece of desert inhabited by people hostile to Jews was a geopolitical action, not one motivated by the need for a safe homeland - which already existed.

It doesn't take a genius to solve the problem.
A solution for peace in Palestine: Destroy Jerusalem

Anyone that is still seeking revenge for Tubal-Cain or King Solomon is simply a parasite.
If you are actively looking for future redemption from the Jewish moshiach (messiah), you are a testament to human stupidity.
I look forward to seeing the next temple carpet bombed.

Open question for anyone on SocialistPhalanx:
What are your opinions on the Ba'athist party as well as Hezbollah?