Violence erupts after Belfast council votes to change flag policy.

I have heard rumours that the Short Strand is now being attacked (happened last year and led to shots being fired by Republicans; probably the PIRA as there were no arrests in the aftermath and its not a "dissident" area- as part of decommissioning the Provo movement got to hold a lot of legal guns) so this could get very serious.

My own view is that they should just fly the St Patrick's Cross which is what represents Ireland on the Union Jack or the City Flag (which I have to say doesnt have much going for it). Loyalists have only themselves to blame for the fact that the UJ is seen as a sectarian marker here (painting curbstones red, white and blue for fucks sake!- mind you the other side is just as stupid a lot of the time).


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20587538

With the lowest wages and probably the worst housing in the UK as well as a massive unemployment rate I can think of a lot better things to get worked up about.

Ugh, I hope it all works out for the best.

The real shame is most people in Britain and the Republic of Ireland don't give two shits about Northern Ireland and the bourgeoise in London and Dublin like things just the way they are.Hopefully one day it will be an independent country in its own right.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/peter-robinson-dup-can-entice-more-catholics-16245664.html#ixzz2Dzkw8uhl

Peter Robinson says the above.

Meanwhile the mob his party whipped up do this to a Protestant elected by Protestants over a piece of cloth;

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/04/belfast-union-flag-councillor-threats

On Stormfront they are saying the Alliance are Marxists; utter bullshit, they range from the centre right to centre left.

TheocWulf wrote:The real shame is most people in Britain and the Republic of Ireland don't give two shits about Northern Ireland and the bourgeoise in London and Dublin like things just the way they are.Hopefully one day it will be an independent country in its own right.

I will post some stuff about the ROI soon. Im studying in Dublin at the moment; did you know that they had two referendums on EU stuff that were rejected first time and than they repeated them and got the result they wanted? When the Queen came over did you know that the Irish President at the time invited leaders of the UDA to meet her because her husband plays golf with its leader (she was from Northern Ireland)? Meanwhile there were riots in Dublin which is supposed to a very "West Brit" city and they shut down the centre while in Cork she welcomed by massive crowds?

What also is clear to me that people from Ulster have more in common with each other than they do with anyone else- but that includes Donegal and Monaghan. If we dont get out of our sectarianism though we will never reach our potential and always be backwater manipulated and exploited.

It's a complex place the Emerald Isle.

Prods in the ROI seem happy to be part of the republic and there houses don't spontaneously combust even during the war of independence and the civil war and I assume many would have been in the Garda or army,I don't know if any served in the IRA.

Also there were prods in the INLA in fairly prominent positions.Also one Loyalist group had two Eygiptians brothers serving as well as homosexuals.Did any Catholics serve in loyalist groups?.

Talking to the ulsterman at my workplace the PSNI won't recruit working class prods anymore and recruits from the middle class as they tend to be from mixed areas,I assume its the same for Catholics working class people.

It's a complex place that's for sure on my visits to NI due to work I've seen some murals and stuff on the high rises and in the Loyalist area where I was working.I saw plenty of non NI people running takeaways and a few Eastern Europeans kicking about aswell.Why have all that inherited sectarianism and all that effort it takes to keep the other side out just to let the bourgeois bring foreigners.

I must say though Northern Irish people are the nicest and friendliest people in the UK (my work sends me all over the uk) no matter your race,religion,sexuality they will be polite and friendly,Unless your a Repubilican/Unionist from the other side of town and the only other places I've seen that level of hatred is from lads from places like Oldham and Bradford.

Studying in Dublin lucky you Dublin Uni is a beautiful place and Dublin is a great city,like a small London but friendly and a slower pace of life.Oh and the Guinness factory

As you say, the lowest wages and poorest housing and people are fighting in the streets over the flying of the flag!! Imagine that anger if generated from both communities to demand a fairer society? That would be a positive move.

During the troubles there was MI5 infiltration of the paramilitaries and I suspect this continues to keep the embers of sectarianism alive. It suits the establishment for the communities to be divided.

It also suits the paramilitaries to keep up the tension because it allows them to continue with making money through criminal activity,see the recent news in Dublin about the tit for tat killings between the RIRA and Dublin's gangsters.

TheocWulf wrote:
Also there were prods in the INLA in fairly prominent positions.Also one Loyalist group had two Eygiptians brothers serving as well as homosexuals.Did any Catholics serve in loyalist groups?.

There were two generations of the INLA. Once the first got killed off, funny how the leadership of the Provos got kept alive with the British state even protecting Gerry Adams life during two occasions but thats another story, the second were sectarian psychos. They were led during the first phase by two people from Protestant backgrounds. I dont think any Roman Catholics served in the Loyalists, I would be surprised if they did given how completely indriscriminate the loyalist stratergy was most of time. Certainly Catholics did serve in the RUC. The Progressive Unionist Party which is sort of a political spin off of the UVF is very big on supporting gay rights and abortion- which the major Unionist parties dont.

Modgardener wrote:As you say, the lowest wages and poorest housing and people are fighting in the streets over the flying of the flag!! Imagine that anger if generated from both communities to demand a fairer society? That would be a positive move.

During the troubles there was MI5 infiltration of the paramilitaries and I suspect this continues to keep the embers of sectarianism alive. It suits the establishment for the communities to be divided.

Bang on the money- MI5 spend more money on Northern Ireland than they do on militant Islam. Im sure its not all fighting "Dissident Republicanism" when the fact is that though many on the nationalist side sympathize with them they dont support them and dont want chaos back. The best thing that could happen is a genuinely working class government in England that has no interest in playing with peoples head and using our land as a social experiment lab.

I disagree with the Workers Party on various things strongly but this is a really good statement- http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/flags-churches-politicians-sectarianism-and-ordinary-people/

I saw on the news that according to the census data 25% of people in the six counties now class themselves of Northern Irish as opposed to British or Irish,the highest number recorded.

TheocWulf wrote:I saw on the news that according to the census data 25% of people in the six counties now class themselves of Northern Irish as opposed to British or Irish,the highest number recorded.

During the troubles the census figures didnt mean anything- the Provos murdered two census collectors if I remember rightly.

To be honest I wouldnt take the census results to seriously. Your address and name is on them (we have the same population as the greater Birmingham area) and Northern Ireland is a paranoid society. A lot of Nationalists filled in Northern Irish without meaning it. How is "British" different from Irish or Northern Irish anyway? The whole thing was a farce. Why wasnt Ulster (most people's identity at the end of day) not on it?

Elections are what matter.

TheocWulf wrote:It also suits the paramilitaries to keep up the tension because it allows them to continue with making money through criminal activity,see the recent news in Dublin about the tit for tat killings between the RIRA and Dublin's gangsters.

Paramilitaries draw a lot of their local support from their ability to deal with hoods in general and hard drug dealers in particular. So while fuel smuggling and minor protection rackets do play a part in financing them their involvement in crime on both sides is exaggerated by the media. A look at convictions will bare this out. Remember the Loyalists were prepared to exile Johnny Adair one of their "icons" during the troubles because of his involvement with stuff he shouldnt have been involved with ( there is a documentary about him on youtube- he should never have been let near a gun). I extremely doubt that Alan Ryan was involved in crime outside of robbing the odd post office. His murder/assasination is very serious- its the first time that hoods have killed a paramilitary north or south. Just as the attacks on "liberal" protestants by loyalists in recent weeks is very serious- something which didnt happen even during the Anglo-Irish Agreement crisis.