A Different Approach

Things are tough all round at the moment, people need an alternative, but many are fed up with party politics.

As an alternative, an alliance of individual Left leaning activists might be a way forward, supported by Individuals who support a simple programme/platform, but have full local autonomy to operate/build and stand in elections?

The idea is simply to get people together and develop a vehicle we can promote our ideas and show there is resistance from ordinary people who have simple had enough.

Good luck with that comrade. In my experience you'll be hard pressed to find two "left leaning activists" to agree on anything much. Left or Right similar divisions exist over basic tenents.
Although he takes a fascist platform, *****s' **********t ideas are worth looking at, he is saying basicaly the same thing, albeit from an opposing position.
It's not more political parties we need, or political 'snake oil salesmen' simply people with a commitment to bring about change.

Isakenaz wrote:Good luck with that comrade. In my experience you'll be hard pressed to find two "left leaning activists" to agree on anything much. Left or Right similar divisions exist over basic tenents.
Although he takes a fascist platform, *****s' **********t ideas are worth looking at, he is saying basicaly the same thing, albeit from an opposing position.
It's not more political parties we need, or political 'snake oil salesmen' simply people with a commitment to bring about change.

I find it curious (though not especially surprising) that you feel it pertinent to evoke the strategies of fascist movements in this context — especially when the syndicalist tradition is full of far superior historic examples of mobilizing the working class.

For future reference, please note that this forum will not tolerate anyone promoting the content of any fascist or reactionary organization.

Admin wrote:I find it curious (though not especially surprising) that you feel it pertinent to evoke the strategies of fascist movements in this context; especially when the syndicalist tradition is full of far superior historic examples of mobilizing the working class.

For future reference, please note that this forum will not tolerate anyone promoting the content of any fascist or reactionary organization.

It is not the ideas or majority content that I'm promoting, just his argument about political parties being tied to their agenda, rather that working for the benefit of the people.
Go out and talk to the workers and find out how they can be mobilised by political ideas that they see as having little relevance to the situation facing the working-class in the 21st Century. Maybe its different in the States, but in my experience the majority of British workers don't give a toss about the international scene except where it impinges directly on theirs and their families lives.
As to your warning, fair enough. But there are many sorts of fascist and they don't always inhabit the right-wing.

Isakenaz wrote:It is not the ideas or majority content that I'm promoting, just his argument about political parties being tied to their agenda, rather that working for the benefit of the people.
Go out and talk to the workers and find out how they can be mobilised by political ideas that they see as having little relevance to the situation facing the working-class in the 21st Century. Maybe its different in the States, but in my experience the majority of British workers don't give a toss about the international scene except where it impinges directly on theirs and their families lives.
As to your warning, fair enough. But there are many sorts of fascist and they don't always inhabit the right-wing.

Exactly mate the indigenous working class don't give a fuck about the international scene or any of the modern left who spend all there time and advertising space showing how they did a counter demo against the BNP or EDL or how they banged up "Pride aware" posters around the workplace .

We're getting to an interesting place from what I've been seeing,People didn't like New Labour because of the immigration problem and a lot of social issues,However now the Conservatives are trying to sort out the social problems the only way they can,so instead of the work shy being sorted out and immigration being sorted,they have decided to target the disabled and cut jobs in the civil service and armed forces on top of further privatisation of essential services such as the NHS.People were angry at Labour but people despise the Tories.

Who's going to fill the void next election? I've no idea the media vilify the BNP type party's and the left are seen as Cosmo dirty hippies.

People have had enough of party politics,give it another 10-20 years and the people will turn on the politicians who believe they have a right to rule just like they did in 1600s against royalty.Lets make sure we are at the forefront of that Revolution.

Thanks for that comrade. Like you I have no idea what is going to happen in the future. But I have come to the opinion that its high time for a new aproach, one that goes beyond politics. The left is shite and the right isn't any better. Capatalism is not the answer, it never was. Marx, Lenin, Kropotkin et al are dead and gone, worm meat. We need to stop trying to find answers to the problems of 21st society in dusty old books written by men who never dreamed of, let alone experienced, the world of now.
Back in the 90s sociologists were trumpeting the end of history. The end of polemics, they were wrong, as some of them have admitted, however something should have ended, the quest for answers in out of date thinking perhaps.

What way should we then look to go forward in England / Britain?

An 'united front' style party could do something but I doubt that there would be much of a call for that among the greater population where I am at the moment. This is something that I am trying to change, one person at a time.

Interesting question,England has a long radical history that many are aware of all the way from the Levellers to more modern well know people like Tony Benn. we need a movement of dedicated individuals who effortlessly fuse the ideas of our radical ancestors with socialism while at the same time are champions of our heritage,culture and identity and begin activism in the poorest areas of our nation,It doesn't even have to big stuff,organising transport for the old and disabled,charity raising for a kids football team,Teaching workers how to orgainise in the workplace ect ect. All this is nothing new,Anarchist in Bristol do this very well as do an Italian Fascist group (who's name I shall not mention).

The point being when Capitalism inevitably collapses and therefore the Government either does not exist or is no longer a factor in many people's lives we have a base area where we have local support to at least begin the work of bringing a better future to people even if its only one town or street or county or whatever.

Building alternative institutions is important and is one of the best things that could be done to build a new society.

Exactly if you have enough people and enough support you could start a co-operative corner shop (not to be confused with a co-op corner shop) where all profits go into the local community and create analternative to the spars and londis ect.

TheocWulf wrote:Exactly if you have enough people and enough support you could start a co-operative corner shop (not to be confused with a co-op corner shop) where all profits go into the local community and create analternative to the spars and londis ect.

You may be interested in the existence of something called a 'social cooperative'. There is an article that talks about them here.

I agree, we need to develop alternatives, but individually, we can do little.

We need a body that we can all work together in, promote, so people can see there is resistance growing and also a body people can gravitate to.

A simple loose network, where we had a name, a short set of principles ( something everyone could agrre on ) and then operate autonomously at local level would be great.

Looking round, there is nothing out there, so the only alternative is to build one.

radicalworker wrote:I agree, we need to develop alternatives, but individually, we can do little.

We need a body that we can all work together in, promote, so people can see there is resistance growing and also a body people can gravitate to.

A simple loose network, where we had a name, a short set of principles ( something everyone could agrre on ) and then operate autonomously at local level would be great.

Looking round, there is nothing out there, so the only alternative is to build one.

You need a source of funds, so building a business that runs without a capitalist relation is a good way. It would be much better than relying on donations.

I think to create an alternative, like a shop, business etc, we need local people / a group & also people would need to trust each other first.
Before this we need to start small, by developing local contacts, starting a local collective/group, getting the message out and creating an allaince of some sort.

Thankfully, via things like the net/computers we can network & also do our own promo items, we need to forget about the mass media & get the message out to the masses & build a resistance. At this stage we can't win, but if? we get the masses on side we can then develop further to our goal.

radicalworker wrote:I agree, we need to develop alternatives, but individually, we can do little.

We need a body that we can all work together in, promote, so people can see there is resistance growing and also a body people can gravitate to.

A simple loose network, where we had a name, a short set of principles ( something everyone could agrre on ) and then operate autonomously at local level would be great.

Looking round, there is nothing out there, so the only alternative is to build one.

IMO loose networks of individuals don't work to the extent where they make a physical impact to people.If you take the Anarchists in Bristol again they generally live in the same part of Bristol probably for many of them in the same house and that's why they have had succes not only in the suburb they inhabit but also in other areas of the city.

We need to follow a similar model,committed individuals working full time on the project and being in each others pockets socially or living together even financially in some cases.I think what Im trying to get at at is we need to start living our ideals ourselves and then start spreading them at a local level before we think bigger.

radicalworker wrote:I think to create an alternative, like a shop, business etc, we need local people / a group & also people would need to trust each other first.
Before this we need to start small, by developing local contacts, starting a local collective/group, getting the message out and creating an allaince of some sort.

No you need people who are singing of the same song sheet who then go out to do good in the community.If you think you can unite the local groups of labour,SWP,anarchists and other traditional left wing groups and get them to work with social nationalists then fair play to you,Then getting this lot on side with community groups as well then I'd be amazed.

Red Aegis wrote:You may be interested in the existence of something called a 'social cooperative'. There is an article that talks about them here.

I believe this sort of thing has been going own in many british city's for years.Somebody even had a go at one in my hometown up north,but used drug addicts as the staff so it didn't last long.

Getting together like the examples you have given is good, but it takes time & trust to do this. Also there are those with families, they have responsibilities etc and wouldn’t be able to do this.

I agree totally that is what we need, but I am looking at the practicalities. We need to do this, but we need to start to come together first, get the word out and get as many people to come on board as possible, then different people will be able to do different things.

radicalworker wrote:I think to create an alternative, like a shop, business etc, we need local people / a group & also people would need to trust each other first.
Before this we need to start small, by developing local contacts, starting a local collective/group, getting the message out and creating an allaince of some sort.

I would recommend that you take a look in the Activism section at this thread.

radicalworker wrote:Getting together like the examples you have given is good, but it takes time & trust to do this. Also there are those with families, they have responsibilities etc and wouldn’t be able to do this.

I agree totally that is what we need, but I am looking at the practicalities. We need to do this, but we need to start to come together first, get the word out and get as many people to come on board as possible, then different people will be able to do different things.

Fair one,but to be fair all the people on the British board differ radically in there tendency and political outlook.We need to find the common ground between ourselves.

In fact I've noticed you haven't even mentioned where you stand politically?

Red Aegis wrote:An 'united front' style party could do something but I doubt that there would be much of a call for that among the greater population where I am at the moment. This is something that I am trying to change, one person at a time.

The 'united front' approach hasn't worked in the past, it always disintegrates into the usual arguments. Any attempt to try and get the various strains of socialism working together is doomed to failure.
What we need is a totaly new approach one dedicated to destroying the main enemy, capitalism, and not another party, or umbrella organisation, that will join the usual intelectual minority rights arguments that plague the left.
I don't know what that 'approach' is, but if we keep addressing the question without declining into the "Marx said this" and "Yes but Lenin said..." we might start to get somewhere,

Isakenaz wrote:The 'united front' approach hasn't worked in the past, it always disintegrates into the usual arguments. Any attempt to try and get the various strains of socialism working together is doomed to failure.
What we need is a totaly new approach one dedicated to destroying the main enemy, capitalism, and not another party, or umbrella organisation, that will join the usual intelectual minority rights arguments that plague the left.
I don't know what that 'approach' is, but if we keep addressing the question without declining into the "Marx said this" and "Yes but Lenin said..." we might start to get somewhere,

Exactly forget the dogma.I personally use many individuals to form my political opinions the likes of Marx,Lilburne,Strasser,Owen,Murros,X,Choamsky and a few other individuals go towards my Folkish Socialism.

We need our national and ethnic identities fused with Socialism to bring a real alternative.