MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

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MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:13 pm

MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD
BY GREGOR STRASSER

We are socialists. We are enemies, deadly enemies, of today's capitalist economic system with its exploitation of the economically weak, its unfair wage system, its immoral way of judging the worth of human beings in terms of their wealth and their money, instead of their responsibility and performance, and we are determined to destroy this system whatever happens!

And yet it is not enough just to change the system, to replace one economic system by another; what is needed above all is to change the spirit! The spirit to be overcome is the spirit of materialism!

We must learn that work means more than possessions! Performance is more than dividends! It is the most wretched legacy of this capitalist system that the criterion for everything's value is money, wealth, possessions! The decline of a people is the inevitable consequence of the use of this yardstick, because selection on the basis of property is the arch-enemy of race, blood, life! We have never left any doubts about the fact that our national socialism puts an end to the privileges of wealth, and that the emancipation of the worker involves participation in profits, property, and management.

There has been much talk in the volkisch movement about the emergence of a new political leadership, and the call for such a leadership is compatible with what I have been saying. But the ways which it recommends for solving the problem, examining people's blood, re-nordification, etc., etc., seem to my practical nature somewhat dubious as far as their feasibility, their value, and even their effectiveness is concerned! There is another one, however, which is an archetypally German, Prussian way, which is more appropriate than any other: selection through the army!

For a man, military service is the most profound and valuable form of participation in the State--for the woman it is motherhood! There are many African tribes where mothers who die in labor are buried with the same honors as warriors who have fallen in battle!

You can call it utopian but for me it is a certainty! Given twenty to thirty years of this type of selection, Germany will have a leadership and executive class which will change the whole face of society and the State, and provide the backbone of the State and its economy!


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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:14 pm

Just working on my cut and paste skills.Feel free to discuss Very Happy

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by RedSun on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:45 pm

I think the stereotyping "War is to the man what maternity is to the woman" sentiment is rather overrated. Proclaiming war to be a man's highest joy is rather a problem when there is no need for war, and the same goes for motherhood when overpopulation is rampant. In addition, the statement itself is quite often untrue.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:52 pm

RedSun wrote:I think the stereotyping "War is to the man what maternity is to the woman" sentiment is rather overrated. Proclaiming war to be a man's highest joy is rather a problem when there is no need for war, and the same goes for motherhood when overpopulation is rampant. In addition, the statement itself is quite often untrue.

In what way is it overrated exactly?

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by RedSun on Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:25 pm

My point was that the wisdom of such sentiments is overrated, often assumed by those who sympathise to be more profound than it is. The reasons following were intended to explain why such statements are in fact rather shortsighted.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Rev Scare on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:01 am

I disagree with Strasser's premises, not least because of their paternalistic slant. Military service and motherhood are hardly the only public contributions people can make, and depending upon the context (such as imperialism, ecological devastation, and systematic failure to provide for coming generations), they need not even serve desirable ends. If anything, I would quote Pericles, whose statement regarding public service in his Funeral Oration is far more eloquent and noble than Strasser's: "For the love of honour alone is ever young, and not riches, as some say, but honour is the delight of men when they are old and useless." In other words, our positive deeds in society are what will comfort us in our old age, not material wealth. This is a superior manner of stating what Strasser could only pronounce in the typically narrow interpretation of fascism.

More important than the nonsense regarding military selection and motherhood, I would like to challenge this oft-repeated fascist (or "national socialist," if one bothers to differentiate) platitude about the "evils" of materialism. Fascists often attribute some inherently "materialistic" tendency to Marxism and capitalism, alleging that the two are more or less distinct sides of the same coin (regardless of the fact that one is a worldview while the other an economic system). They do so because they adhere to an ideology known as idealism: the belief that the world is a result of our ideas, thereby relegating material factors to secondary or no relevance. This allows the fascist to spout off about ridiculous abstractions without facing material reality. The belief that we can simply alter the world by imposing our ideas is an old one, and its pernicious consequences are inscribed throughout history.

Marxism is decried as "materialistic" as a result of the fact that the myopia of fascists has only an idealistic understanding of the term—in its negative sense. In fact, Marxism is a scientific doctrine, relying upon empirical evidence to describe the contradictions within bourgeois society. Strasserism, as is evidenced by this article, is prone to the same idealistic fallacy as all other reactionary nationalist currents. It calls for a shift in perspective ("to change the spirit!") of society and, from there, to conform society to a set of ideas. This is the primary reason, in my view, why fascists have historically accomplished so little worthy of praise but have nonetheless maintained such a delusional self-righteousness.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Red Aegis on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:49 am

The only way that this "selection" may be said to take place is for there to be a war and have the surviving men impregnate every female they like. This would have to constantly be done to "create" a new gene pool of "superior" men and women. I disagree with that crap as well as this "volk" spirit. To try to homogenize a culture, especially a very heterogeneous one, is wrong and excludes those not seen to fit the mold.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:10 am

Some interesting arguments put forward however who can deny while there are many ways to serve the community the two most essential are military service and motherhood.Other forms of service indeed have there merits but they are not esssential to the very life of the nation/folk.

On materialism I think from my perspective Capitalist materialism has/is destroying the very soul of our nations the riots in London last year are an example of this.People haveing material isnt an issue the issue is how this material effects us as a whole and its safe to say our modern capitalist materialist system isnt serving the best intrest of the nation/folk and the whole world in general.I belive the manner of materialism that makes good or bad.

and Agies you sound like your from RevLeft that is not what Strasser advocated at all,he and his brother were peacefull men and they had no belife in some hitlerite Aryan super race could be bred.Also to say that people are not a folk or a people have certain traits as a culture or nation is pure Cosmoplitanism at its worst.

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 am

In fact why has been put in the Reactionarys section?
What is reactionry about this thread exactly?

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Celtiberian on Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:43 am

TheocWulf wrote:Some interesting arguments put forward however who can deny while there are many ways to serve the community the two most essential are military service and motherhood.Other forms of service indeed have there merits but they are not esssential to the very life of the nation/folk.

Reproduction is obviously necessary for the continuation of the human species, but so is breathing and eating. Celebrating motherhood is typically a rhetorical guise for the promotion of sexist policies. Quite often the politicians who overemphasize the importance of motherhood do so in order to demonize those women who seek self-actualization or financial independence in the performance of labor. As for military service, defense is clearly important, but it should be viewed as a social responsibility necessary for as long as imperialism remains a threat, not something essential to the psychological fulfillment of men.

On materialism I think from my perspective Capitalist materialism has/is destroying the very soul of our nations the riots in London last year are an example of this.People haveing material isnt an issue the issue is how this material effects us as a whole and its safe to say our modern capitalist materialist system isnt serving the best intrest of the nation/folk and the whole world in general.I belive the manner of materialism that makes good or bad.

You're confusing consumerism with materialism. The former is an obsession with consumption, the latter is a philosophical method of analysis which asserts the primacy of matter and its movement in understanding life. Idealism, conversely, maintains that ideas alone are the source of human social structures.

In fact why has been put in the Reactionarys section?

Because its author (Gregor Strasser) was a reactionary.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Red Aegis on Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:13 am

How could it possibly not be what I said? He literally said this, " Given twenty to thirty years of this type of selection, Germany will have a leadership and executive class which will change the whole face of society and the State, and provide the backbone of the State and its economy!" How else but war would there be a selective pressure towards good soldiers? It is exactly like a Hitlerite position for that very reason.

You react as though we are attacking you when you asked for our opinion on Strasser.

Yes, I came here from revleft, but you meant it as a personal insult, I believe.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:16 pm

Celtiberian wrote:As for military service, defense is clearly important, but it should be viewed as a social responsibility necessary for as long as imperialism remains a threat, not something essential to the psychological fulfillment of men.

I disagre even in this Utopian future there will still be war its probably one of the only certains in human history.

Because its author (Gregor Strasser) was a reactionary.

Well if the Mods have decided Strasserism and any associated peopels are Reactionary so where does this leave me and any (Although I belive they have all gone) remaining Strassists on this forum if our posts and all Strasserist related things are to be considered reactionary?

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:19 pm

Red Aegis wrote:How could it possibly not be what I said? He literally said this, " Given twenty to thirty years of this type of selection, Germany will have a leadership and executive class which will change the whole face of society and the State, and provide the backbone of the State and its economy!" How else but war would there be a selective pressure towards good soldiers? It is exactly like a Hitlerite position for that very reason.

You react as though we are attacking you when you asked for our opinion on Strasser.

Yes, I came here from revleft, but you meant it as a personal insult, I believe.

Frankly yes I find your sterile view on peoples and cultures odd and down right Cosmopolitan.

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Red Aegis on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:36 pm

TheocWulf wrote:Frankly yes I find your sterile view on peoples and cultures odd and down right Cosmopolitan.

That's nice, I love you just the way you are. Give me a nice cosmopolitan hug you adorable thing you.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:53 pm

Red Aegis wrote:That's nice, I love you just the way you are. Give me a nice cosmopolitan hug you adorable thing you.

I love you
They dont have a hug Emoticon hope that one will do

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Take notice, That England is not a Free People, till the Poor that have no Land, have a free allowance to dig and labour the Commons, and so live as Comfortably as the Landlords that live in their Inclosures. For the People have not laid out their Monies, and shed their Bloud, that their Landlords, the Norman power, should still have its liberty and freedom to rule in Tyranny.-Gerrard Winstanley & 14 others TheTrue Levellers Standard Advanced - April, 1649

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Celtiberian on Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:22 pm

TheocWulf wrote:I disagre even in this Utopian future there will still be war its probably one of the only certains in human history.

If the national and social questions facing humanity are successfully solved, I see absolutely no reason to suspect that war will continue indefinitely. As things stand now, war has been restricted to the periphery of the world due to the nuclear threat. Those who proclaim that war will 'always be with us' are overly pessimistic, in my opinion.

Well if the Mods have decided Strasserism and any associated peopels are Reactionary so where does this leave me and any (Although I belive they have all gone) remaining Strassists on this forum if our posts and all Strasserist related things are to be considered reactionary?

Not every statement Gregor and Otto Strasser made was reactionary, but if one analyzes their work in its totality, any objective observer would conclude that Strasserism is reactionary. The Strasser brothers' "German socialism" was elitist in nature and their nationalism oscillated between being thoroughly militaristic and reactionary to being slightly less so. As for the Strasserists on this forum, they are free to post anywhere they choose. However, reactionary posts will be confined to the Opposing Views section, just as cosmopolitan posts are. Regarding the Strasserists who have recently fled, they largely defected to the Iron March forum (which is unabashedly fascist), thereby confirming their own reactionary tendencies.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by TheocWulf on Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:19 am

Celtiberian wrote:Not every statement Gregor and Otto Strasser made was reactionary, but if one analyzes their work in its totality, any objective observer will conclude that Strasserism is reactionary. The Strasser brother's "German socialism" was elitist in nature and their nationalism oscillated between being thoroughly militaristic and reactionary to being slightly less so. As for the Strasserists on this forum, they are free to post anywhere they choose. However, reactionary posts will be confined to the Opposing Views section, just as cosmopolitan posts are. Regarding the Strasserists who have fled, they largely defected to the Iron March forum (which is unabashedly fascist), thereby confirming their reactionary tendencies.

Them going to Iron March dont prove Facism as all National Socialist,Strasserist or otherwise subjects end up in the OV section on that forum.I find that odd since they use both the Strassers,Hitler,and Himmler in the forum banners.I suppose we will end up in the wilderness again as I dont think Strasseristwill find understanding at IM.

TBH im running out of things to say on SP the ideologys and ideas of the people and groups I feel are social nationalist not just Strasserism but the Levellers and diggers ect are not in tune with the Mods.Its probably better if I step away.

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Re: MOTHERHOOD AND WARRIORHOOD

Post by Celtiberian on Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:08 am

TheocWulf wrote:Them going to Iron March dont prove Facism as all National Socialist,Strasserist or otherwise subjects end up in the OV section on that forum.I find that odd since they use both the Strassers,Hitler,and Himmler in the forum banners.I suppose we will end up in the wilderness again as I dont think Strasseristwill find understanding at IM.

I think you're mistaken. To my knowledge, the Iron March forum allows Strasserists to post in their main sections. Regardless, I was merely highlighting the fact that the Strasserist members' decision to defect to Iron March proves the underlying reactionary tendencies those individuals possess. (In a way, their decision makes sense, as Strasserism shares far more in common with fascism philosophically than it does with left-wing nationalism.)

TBH im running out of things to say on SP the ideologys and ideas of the people and groups I feel are social nationalist not just Strasserism but the Levellers and diggers ect are not in tune with the Mods.Its probably better if I step away.

I've always maintained cordial relations with the Strasserists here, even though we have vastly different opinions on a number of critical issues. I consider Strasserism to be a highly confused ideology, but it's typically espoused by well-intentioned individuals. As for the Diggers and the Levellers, I have absolutely no negative views of those historic social movements whatsoever and I've not witnessed any Socialist Phalanx moderator claim to either.

If you no longer feel as though you have the desire to discuss and debate matters with the members of this forum, perhaps you should go. However, I see no reason why that should be the case.

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"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
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