Left wing nationalism.

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Left wing nationalism.

Post by VLR on Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:28 pm

So let's have a more indepth discussion about Left-wing Nationalism(LWN). What is LWN? In the FAQ it says it is "both thoroughly anti-capitalist and anti-reactionary.", and that it rejects "ethnic chauvinism, economic exploitation, and imperialism.". But what is the goal? If it were just these things then you could qualify just as a socialist, without any nationalism.

Is the goal to preserve the nation? And in that case, what constitute the nation?

Thanks in advance and i look forward to some insight of my fellow comrades thoughts.  Smile
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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by Uberak on Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:39 pm

I believe that the nation must not only be preserved but expanded.

The nation, for me at least, is a civic and cultural fellowship forged amongst the people through common solidarity. Race and ancestry doesn't matter in my opinion. The state, ideally, forming as a representative of this national fellowship through a direct democracy in which the will of the citizens and the will of the state are one and the same. In addition, the citizenry would have a common culture and a strong loyalty or sense of civic duty to this fellowship of a nation. You can say that this is a combination of civic nationalism, eidgenossenschaft, cultural nationalism, and Enlightenment/Classical Republican ideals of civic virtue. This even applies to regional or municipal identities.

The fellowship of the folk must be expanded to form a phalanx of liberty against both the barbaric oppression of racialism and religious fundamentalism on one hand and the soulless dehumanization of cosmopolitanism on the other. The folly of mass immigration and globalization must be fought against with the sword of economic and military might against the hordes of the bourgeoisie, whilst the terror of racial and religious hate along with backwards discrimination shall be incinerated with the enlightening torch of liberty. At the same time, the hammer of the toiling people shall end the exploitation of the working class and bring about a nation forged by the people, for the people, and of the people. United in liberty, equality, and fraternity, not even the fiat of God himself can stop the march of the free peoples of the world to victory!

Let us stand united or die divided!
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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by English Socialist on Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:49 pm

The nation for me is the people; the indigenous people at that. I reject the idea that possession of a passport can in some way imbue an individual with the qualities of the nation, in the manner of some magickal device!

Left-wing Nationalism is therefore the defence of the people against all varieties of globalism: Marxist, Capitalist, Communitarian et al. To this end, LWN is the unity of ethnicity, culture, tradition and soil. This is not in any way a supremacist racist ideology, but rather one which genuinely respects the international diversity of humanity, which it protects by halting migration of people and goods in any direction.

Inner Unity and Outer Respect with a total anchor in the soul and blood of the people - that is what LWN means to me.

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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by cogarian888 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 am

The following would be how I personally conceive of a Left Wing Nationalism, and is by no means definitive. My influences would mostly be the French New Right, anarchism, and Marxism, so keep that in mind when it comes to my opinions. Here it goes:

A nation is a group of people united by a common culture, common values, and a common background. The identity of the individual is necessarily rooted in his national identity, for the individual doesn't exist in the abstract, but instead develops in an already established culture and ancestry. Society is not merely a collection of individuals pursuing their own economic interests, but instead is an organic outgrowth of man's nature, which is inherently social.

Left Wing Nationalism recognizes that each nation has a right to exist, and a right to be different from other nations. In addition, Left Wing Nationalism recognizes that capitalism is the driving force behind the current destruction of nations which we are witnessing all over the planet, with mass immigration, the subordination of all culture to a culture of consumption, the Westernization of the world, and cultural imperialism. The right of one nation to exist inherently implies the right of other nations to exist, for nations are defined through their different characteristics; as a result, Left Wing Nationalism also embraces Internationalism, and realizes that the abolition of global capitalism must be undertaken internationally, or all nations are threatened. In addition, imperialism undermines both the nation that is imperialized and the imperializing nation.

Left Wing Nationalism also recognizes the importance of class struggle, and denies that any class collaboration can take place without leaving the current system fundamentally intact. As a result, LWN rejects fascist ideology, which embraces class collaboration and is, as a result, ruinous to nations which embrace it. LWN recognizes that only through the embrace of revolutionary socialism can nations break the chains of liberalism, with its commodification of social life and its misguided individualism, and capitalism, with its alienation, oppression, and division.


Last edited by cogarian888 on Fri Apr 25, 2014 5:06 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Got interrupted when writing; wanted to elaborate)
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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by Celtiberian on Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:34 pm

VLR wrote:So let's have a more indepth discussion about Left-wing Nationalism(LWN). What is LWN? In the FAQ it says it is "both thoroughly anti-capitalist and anti-reactionary.", and that it rejects "ethnic chauvinism, economic exploitation, and imperialism.". But what is the goal? If it were just these things then you could qualify just as a socialist, without any nationalism.

Is the goal to preserve the nation? And in that case, what constitute the nation?

Thanks in advance and i look forward to some insight of my fellow comrades thoughts.  Smile

The definition provided in the FAQ was intentionally kept broad and negative, so as to ensure a diversity of views on the forum.

Left-wing nationalism is basically an answer to the National Question which has vexed socialist scholars for over a century. My own conception of it largely derives from a number Marxist theoreticians, although it can by no means be claimed to originate from the work of Marx and Engels themselves—who lacked sufficient time to devote to the subject during their lifetimes. In short, left-wing nationalism is the view that national identity is a legitimate and enduring form of self-identification. The policy implications that follow from an acceptance of that fact are contingent upon one's view of nationality. If one adheres to a territorial conception thereof, self-determination of nations residing over a specific geographical space is the standard recommendation. If one instead follows the personal principle developed by figures like Otto Bauer, national self-determination is better expressed in the form of separate cultural institutions co-existing within the same geographic territory. I believe both theories have merit and should be adopted in certain contexts.

As for what constitutes the nation, I believe it is best expressed as a relative community of character. The emphasis a nation places on culture, history, language, and ancestry varies and should be determined democratically, as opposed to being assigned from an outside agency following a specific criteria.

What distinguishes left-wing nationalism the most from bourgeois and reactionary nationalism, however, is its commitment to egalitarian justice and proletarian internationalism. Thus, it is fundamentally at odds with class collaboration, the practice of wage labor, territorial expansionism, etc.

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"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
—Mikhail Bakunin Red Star
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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by Social Corporatist on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:48 am

What I've observed is that the purpose of Left-Wing Nationalism is to establish a Left-Wing system and protect it from being eroded by International Financiers / Capitalist Imperialism.

It's not exactly Lenin's Vanguard party idea, because my interpretation, at least, isn't revolutionary, nor does it attempt absolute socioeconomic autarky, because trade is still necessary (no country, as of yet, contains infinite resources—though it wouldn't hurt to try and develop the technology for it), but the point is to create a situation where imports are low and exports are high, and local employment is available for everyone, which means that outsourcing would be frowned upon; so, economical nationalism, at the very least, would be present.
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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by Dave84 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:42 pm

Would I be correct in saying that left wing nationalism finds organisational expression in the corporate state (CS)? I know that fascism takes the CS as a guiding principle along with ideas of militant nationalism but is it possible to be on the left and still be a supporter and an agitator for the CS

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Re: Left wing nationalism.

Post by Celtiberian on Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:58 am

Social Corporatist wrote:What I've observed is that the purpose of Left-Wing Nationalism is to establish a Left-Wing system and protect it from being eroded by International Financiers / Capitalist Imperialism.

That is one conception, which is primarily endorsed by socialist movements in developing countries which seek (misguided) alliances with segments of the national bourgeoisie. It's certainly not the one we subscribe to here.

It's not exactly Lenin's Vanguard party idea, because my interpretation, at least, isn't revolutionary, nor does it attempt absolute socioeconomic autarky, because trade is still necessary (no country, as of yet, contains infinite resources—though it wouldn't hurt to try and develop the technology for it), but the point is to create a situation where imports are low and exports are high, and local employment is available for everyone, which means that outsourcing would be frowned upon; so, economical nationalism, at the very least, would be present.

I think a distinction between economic nationalism à la Friedrich List and national self-determination is in order. We Marxists who support the latter are under no obligation to advocate the former—although, for ecological purposes, it probably is advisable for communities to become as autonomous as possible in terms of resource cultivation.

Dave84 wrote:Would I be correct in saying that left wing nationalism finds organisational expression in the corporate state (CS)? I know that fascism takes the CS as a guiding principle along with ideas of militant nationalism but is it possible to be on the left and still be a supporter and an agitator for the CS

The corporate state, in my opinion, is the antithesis of left-wing nationalism. It perpetuates the very exploitative class structure responsible for undermining any genuine sense of community among the population. National identity is an emergent property which flourishes best under conditions of material equality and cooperative social relations; hence why we have reason to suspect a national renaissance, as it were, upon the establishment of a communist mode of production. What corporativism attempts to do, conversely, is make nationalism a civic responsibility, enforced by the state. Proponents of the theory harbor the idealist delusion that class antagonisms can be transcended by impartial bureaucrats who serve to promote "national interests"—which, in practice, are virtually always the interests of capital accumulation.

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—J. B. S. Haldane Hammer Sickle

"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
—Mikhail Bakunin Red Star
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