Kim Jong-il Has Died

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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by RedSun on Thu Dec 22, 2011 8:06 pm

Celtiberian wrote:I've been meaning to buy Bruce Cummings's North Korea: Another Country for some time now. It appears to be among the more objective works on the subject, so you may be interested in reading it as well.

Let me know what you think when you read it; Cumings gets predictably portrayed as a North Korean apologist and I'd like to know to what extent you agree.

Celtiberian wrote:The Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)—which is a small Stalinist organization

It's Stalinist? For one thing, I was under the impression Marxism-Leninism was different from Stalinism. For another, I don't like Stalinism or its policies. It seems to me to be one of the main things socialists have to overcome, one of the main stereotypes with which modern intelligent socialist discussions are buried, in the same way that anyone proclaiming themselves a nationalist is tarred with the brush of Hitlerism. I also doubt the ability of an organisation promoting a rather totalitarian ideology to objectively evaluate the situation in the DPRK. Am I wrong about this?
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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by Balkan Beast on Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:45 pm

I can agree with that it isn't exactly an unbiased account, if the DPRK wasn't so strict on reporters, and would allow humanitarian groups to investigate then we could know the truth. Unfortunately that isn't the case, I am intrigued though by their new leader it'll be interesting to see what the future brings for North Korea.
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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by Celtiberian on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:42 pm

RedSun wrote:Let me know what you think when you read it

I'll be sure to.

Cumings gets predictably portrayed as a North Korean apologist and I'd like to know to what extent you agree.

Yes, but then anyone who doesn't take the position that the DPRK is an "evil dictatorship" is accused of being an apologist; the same was true of the individuals who chose to write objectively about the Soviet Union.

It's Stalinist?

Undoubtedly. Not only do they wholeheartedly support Stalin's legacy, but I've seen videos wherein they even refer to themselves as being "Stalinists" (which is extremely rare for Stalinist organizations to do).


Taken at a CPGB-ML demonstration.

For one thing, I was under the impression Marxism-Leninism was different from Stalinism.

The vast majority of Stalinists consider the ideology they espouse to be Marxism-Leninism. In fact, the two tendencies who most utilize the term "Marxism-Leninism" are Stalinists and Trotskyists.

For another, I don't like Stalinism or its policies. It seems to me to be one of the main things socialists have to overcome, one of the main stereotypes with which modern intelligent socialist discussions are buried, in the same way that anyone proclaiming themselves a nationalist is tarred with the brush of Hitlerism.

I certainly don't support Stalinism either, though I consider myself neutral with respect to the manner in which Stalin governed the Soviet Union. He oversaw the industrialization of -and vast improvements of living standards in- the USSR, and he was instrumental in the Soviet defeat of the German invasion. However, the socialism practiced in the USSR left much to be desired, genuine democracy was denied to the Soviet citizenry, national self-determination wasn't implemented for the numerous Soviet nationalities, and the political repression was obviously horrendous.

I also doubt the ability of an organisation promoting a rather totalitarian ideology to objectively evaluate the situation in the DPRK. Am I wrong about this?

Not at all. I entirely agree that the CPGB-ML's analysis of the North Korean regime is biased. They are an organization which adamantly defends every nation that is nominally "socialist," including the People's Republic of China! Laughing Take everything they say with a grain of salt. The only reason I linked to one of their videos was to provide an example of the DPRK allowing Western tourists into the nation.


Last edited by Celtiberian on Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by GF on Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:16 pm

RedSun wrote:EDIT: Or maybe not. Apparently in Juche the military is seen as the primary revolutionary force within the nation, not the proletariat.

I recall reading somewhere that the military being the main revolutionary force was an addition to Juche by Kim Jong Il, and that this was never part of the original Juche by Kim Il Sung.

Edit: Totally forgot to read this page, as this has already been addressed.

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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by TotalitarianSocialist on Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:47 am

RIP comrade. May Korea reunited!
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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

Post by Metal Gear on Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:22 am


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Re: Kim Jong-il Has Died

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