Just a from a fellow.

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Just a from a fellow.

Post by Kaiser_Monsopiad on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:23 am

Well, I hope the moderators are courteous enough to let this thread proceed so we may have an appropriate discussion or debate about the topic. By now you may have known that I am in fact a National Socialist as depicted from description(See Tendency). Though I would like to add that I am not, I'll say again just to confirm to be sure you got me, am not one of your typical "Neo-Nazis", White Nationalists or other so called posers who Zieg Feil'ed at the top of their lungs while wearing WW2 Halloween costumes. I am also not here to provoke any flame wars simply because our political ancestors had a huge argument over who has the biggest mustache.

Frankly, my purpose coming here is to understand and learn about pure Socialism from the ones who endorses it. For to my knowledge, without Socialism N.Socialism would simply be in non-existent. The same goes for Fascism. Well, I have to cut this short not, cause I suspect that my words might not get through the moderator's ban hammer. I got banned and kicked out from the RevLeft forum simply because I stated that I was a National Socialist. Neutral So hopefully you guys here are more tolerant that your lesser peers.

Don't mind to ask anything. The more questions the better, need to get back my thinking cap back.
Oh yes, and before I forgot, here's my question. Would you accept a National Socialist(Not Neo-Nazis, hell no!) as a comrade? Disregard any past issues of course, not every believer of National Socialism supported every Hitler's plan. Then again, not everything executed by Hitler's officers were acknowledged or even ordered by the Fuhrer himself.
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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Coach on Sat Oct 08, 2011 4:49 am

Kaiser, if you are coming seriously to re-think, question, and learn, you came to the right place.
Indeed, many of us originally and recently broke from NS ideological conceptions. If you want to understand why, then put on your thinking cap, and have a seat, because it's school time here at SP.

This isn't RevLeft. The forum mods will initially put you on restriction because you declared for NS (and we'll explain why), but this is not to be taken as "get the hell outta here", but instead as us saying to you that we want you to be serious about coming to think again, learn, and have a real discussion with us. If we didn't mean that, we'd just ban you outright like they'd do on RevLeft with no further comment. I was recently banned from RevLeft, by the way, as a 'fascist'---and soon I'm sure you'll see just how inaccurate that assessment was. We're not making that sort of mistake here. If you came to promote fascism and reaction, then we'll combat it and make clear why; but if you are here seriously to rethink and learn and discuss, we don't give a crap where you came from.

Today and tomorrow is what matters: Where and with whom do you stand? What sort of society are you striving for? How will a revolutionary transformation of society happen, and in whose interests? Why must and should there be a revolutionary socialist transformation? What is to be done NOW? Could we really win? What are you willing to do?

Right now, I'm interested in what motivated you to want to learn more about socialism and how you are interpreting what has happened in the world recently.

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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Kaiser_Monsopiad on Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:35 am

Thanks for the reply Coach, but I'd understand if the moderators would put me on restriction as they did on the fellow who posted the topic "Hitler a yellow socialist?". Although I do find this all quite to authoritarian. Then again this is a partisan forum and a partisan forum it shall stand.

Originally, I'm more incline towards Socialism rather than Nationalism. While I do stress the importance of Nationalistic values, I tend to favour Socialism more simply because of it's economic theories. I guess its because it actually tries to solve problems as opposed to scapegoating. Which is why I would like to join a forum which purely handles Socialism. Moreover, I can't help it but to contribute back to the cause in any fashion I'm eligible or able to(The Cause that I'm referring to isn't restricted to N.Socialists only, but to the whole of humanity).

Moreover, we had a Socialist in our LNSGP forum before. He was a nice fellow, I have to say his one of our important critics which actually helps the rest of the members think rather than just Zeig Feil. Now as opposed to the folks who came from St0rmfront.oxg and N5M88 who lacked credibility to even type proper sentences, we have always find the folks from the Left to be amiable than our warped peers. Sadly, our very name made the left to disregard us. Long story short, we don't want to be associated with the mainstream "Nazis", the Left still view us the enemy and there aren't really much groups out there that shares the same ideals or goals as us. This is also another reason why I join here, to get the long awaited out that the LNSGP wishes to cooperate with the Left.

I was recently banned from RevLeft, by the way, as a 'fascist
Okay, you lost me here. Why on Earth would they regard you as one?

If you came to promote fascism and reaction, then we'll combat it and make clear why;
Haha don't worry. Of all the places to be a quack doctor or propaganda mouthpiece, wouldn't a forum like this get me banned regardless if I'm an active propagandists or not? Same goes for the other Fascist/Nazi forums out there, same result. Nope, as I stated before, I'm not here to start any flame war or anything regarding to that. Being a keyboard warrior has no benefits at all, yet alone warring with each other when we have a real common enemy to face against.

Today and tomorrow is what matters
Ah, so this is where it gets interesting. My answer to the first question is, anyone who benefits humanity. We must remember what are the original purpose of political ideologies, economic theories, social policies, etc. in the first place, to service our species. We are human first before anything. It is the responsibility of every individual to ensure the survival of the species, as well as the betterment of our civilization.

So why go Socialist? Well isn't this is what has been sought by numerous revolutionaries ever since the majority started thinking? Even National Socialists sought a Socialist economy. Whats more contemporary democracies are starting to adopt Socialist ideals into the system as ruling parties are coming to the realization that pure capitalism alone will indeed falter.

Now onto the last three questions. While we may not see a major change towards the world in our lifetime, there will be a time when there comes a standstill in the system, thus giving the opportunity for the gears of change to unfold. Communism wouldn't have come into practice had the Tsar been so fair and just.
We can speculate the outcome but to put the plan into practical use, all we need to do now is to refine our skills, improve ourselves, contribute to society, and wait. But when the opportunity arises, we shall strike fast and with momentum. Why I said we must wait? I think you know the answer. Look at our current society now, I doubt the masses care much about current issues aside from celebrity news, sports, gossips and garbage culture. There needs to be a moment to pause things, a big event if you will to wake the masses up for a moment to spare for us to put our gears into motion.

We became what we are because we care about humanity.
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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Celtiberian on Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:19 pm

Kaiser_Monsopiad wrote:Frankly, my purpose coming here is to understand and learn about pure Socialism from the ones who endorses it. For to my knowledge, without Socialism N.Socialism would simply be in non-existent. The same goes for Fascism. Well, I have to cut this short not, cause I suspect that my words might not get through the moderator's ban hammer. I got banned and kicked out from the RevLeft forum simply because I stated that I was a National Socialist. Neutral So hopefully you guys here are more tolerant that your lesser peers.

Unlike RevLeft, we don't ban anyone because they happen to espouse a political ideology which doesn't conform with our own. What we take into account is whether or not the individual is genuinely interested in learning about revolutionary socialism and/or left-wing nationalism. You've expressed such an interest, so you needn't worry about being banned.

Oh yes, and before I forgot, here's my question. Would you accept a National Socialist(Not Neo-Nazis, hell no!) as a comrade? Disregard any past issues of course, not every believer of National Socialism supported every Hitler's plan. Then again, not everything executed by Hitler's officers were acknowledged or even ordered by the Fuhrer himself.

It really depends on the form of national socialism the individual endorses. As I'm sure you know, 'national socialism' is a term which many political organizations have adopted over the years, and the definition varies considerably between each group. There are Hitlerian National Socialists, Strasserists, and so forth. If the national socialist in question is actively opposed to worker control of the means of production and preaches imperialism and/or class collaborationism, then I would have absolutely no reason to consider him or her a comrade of mine.

I'd understand if the moderators would put me on restriction as they did on the fellow who posted the topic "Hitler a yellow socialist?". Although I do find this all quite to authoritarian. Then again this is a partisan forum and a partisan forum it shall stand.

It may seem authoritarian, but I think you can appreciate the rationale behind our policy: if we were to allow individuals opposed to revolutionary socialism to post in our main forum, we'd risk having productive discussions constantly interrupted by reactionary rhetoric. As you correctly noted, this is a partisan forum and we make no excuses for that.

Long story short, we don't want to be associated with the mainstream "Nazis", the Left still view us the enemy and there aren't really much groups out there that shares the same ideals or goals as us. This is also another reason why I join here, to get the long awaited out that the LNSGP wishes to cooperate with the Left.

Most of the contemporary Left regards any support of nationalism to be unacceptable, which is probably why they dismiss the possibility of working with your organization. What distinguished the members of this particular forum from the aforementioned cosmopolitans, however, is we not only regard left-wing nationalism favorably, but consider it a necessary condition for the fostering of revolutionary socialism. In other words, we fundamentally disagree with many so-called leftists on the National Question. This doesn't mean that any of our organizations would be willing to work with yours though; that entirely depends on what your group promotes.

Even National Socialists sought a Socialist economy.

Some National Socialists certainly did, but many did not. Hitler's conception of "socialism," for instance, can basically be summarized as dirigisme with certain social welfare provisions. Some people consider that to be form of socialism, but it's definitely not socialism as the ideology is understood by revolutionary socialists. We believe in the complete abolition of bourgeois social relations, to be replaced by worker control of the means of production and distribution.

The school of socialist thought which many variants of national socialism descend from is Saint-Simonism—which basically advocated on behalf of a hierarchical, technocratic society. Revolutionary socialists, on the other hand, are the heirs of more syndicalist conceptions of socialism and communism (see the work of Pierre-Joseph Proudhon and Mikhail Bakunin).

Whats more contemporary democracies are starting to adopt Socialist ideals into the system as ruling parties are coming to the realization that pure capitalism alone will indeed falter.

Basically every social welfare reform (e.g. unemployment insurance, health and safety regulations, minimum wage laws, the eight-hour workday, social security, national health care, etc.) that has ever been enacted was the result of popular struggles from below, not the generosity or pragmatism of bourgeois politicians. Capitalism, however, cannot and will not abide by such programs for long—which is why the welfare state has been progressively dismantled since its inception. Any program which fails to adapt itself to the logic private accumulation simply cannot be maintained for any appreciable length of time under capitalism.

Look at our current society now, I doubt the masses care much about current issues aside from celebrity news, sports, gossips and garbage culture. There needs to be a moment to pause things, a big event if you will to wake the masses up for a moment to spare for us to put our gears into motion.

False consciousness is undoubtedly pervasive in society today, therefore I agree that things are going to have to get considerably worse before an adequate percentage of the population is shaken out of its current state of apathy. Economic crises are an inescapable feature of the capitalist mode of production, and it is during these periods of time that left-wing organizations have an opportunity to establish the class consciousness and solidarity necessary to spark revolution.


Last edited by Celtiberian on Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:14 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Rebel Redneck 59 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:25 pm

Welcome to the forum Kaiser. The truth is the words: National Socialist, Socialist Nationalist, Nationalist Socialist, Social Nationalist, etc are pretty much interchangeable terms. They are all labels for an ideology that combines Nationalism and Socialism. I personally dont use the word " National Socialist" to describe my beliefs because most people associate that word with the Third Reich ( which I dont want anything to do with).

My advice to you is make up your own version of this ideology ( whatever you want to call it). Dont just imitate the version as practiced by Hitler and his followers. Suit it to your own people.

As for would I be willing to work with a person who called themselves a National Socialist, that depends on who they were. I would have to know them in real life as well as where they stand. I certainly wouldnt work with a White Nationalist who called themselves a National Socialist or a person who thought of National Socialism as an outlet to simply bash Jews, Communists, Freemasons, etc. I will say that I am perfectly willing to share any forum with any sort of person ( no matter who they are and what they believe) as long as they are civil. Then again its up to the administrator and the moderators of this forum to decide who can or cannot join and I will respect their decisions since its their forum and not mine.

Anyways welcome again and I hope you like this forum.

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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Kaiser_Monsopiad on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:55 pm

Celtiberian
Its nice to know the forum has knowledgeable moderators. Its forums like this that keeps me interested.
Aside from that, whats a good read about pure Socialism? Would Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto suffice or is there another source of reference?
I was about to make another thread regarding to China's adoption of capitalist policies, though I'm unsure whether to post this under Reactionary or Questions. Also to avoid misunderstandings in the future, what would you considered as "Subversive" or Reactionary?

Rebel Warrior 59
Nice to see that there are ones out there who shares the same belief. While I do endorse in National Socialism, I don't quite follow Hitler's ideas and systems. His systems were meant for Germans and consequently, the Europeans. Though it is highly unsuitable for Asian or Islamic derivatives. Also, much of his vision consists of expansionism which I find obsolete and irrelevant to contemporary issues.
Anyway, have you heard about the LNSGP before?
Hope to hear much from you again.
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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by TheocWulf on Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:23 pm

Kaiser_Monsopiad wrote:Well, I hope the moderators are courteous enough to let this thread proceed so we may have an appropriate discussion or debate about the topic. By now you may have known that I am in fact a National Socialist as depicted from description(See Tendency). Though I would like to add that I am not, I'll say again just to confirm to be sure you got me, am not one of your typical "Neo-Nazis", White Nationalists or other so called posers who Zieg Feil'ed at the top of their lungs while wearing WW2 Halloween costumes. I am also not here to provoke any flame wars simply because our political ancestors had a huge argument over who has the biggest mustache.

Frankly, my purpose coming here is to understand and learn about pure Socialism from the ones who endorses it. For to my knowledge, without Socialism N.Socialism would simply be in non-existent. The same goes for Fascism. Well, I have to cut this short not, cause I suspect that my words might not get through the moderator's ban hammer. I got banned and kicked out from the RevLeft forum simply because I stated that I was a National Socialist. Neutral So hopefully you guys here are more tolerant that your lesser peers.

Don't mind to ask anything. The more questions the better, need to get back my thinking cap back.
Oh yes, and before I forgot, here's my question. Would you accept a National Socialist(Not Neo-Nazis, hell no!) as a comrade? Disregard any past issues of course, not every believer of National Socialism supported every Hitler's plan. Then again, not everything executed by Hitler's officers were acknowledged or even ordered by the Fuhrer himself.

Perhaps you may want to look into Strasserism?

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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Celtiberian on Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:40 am

Kaiser_Monsopiad wrote:whats a good read about pure Socialism? Would Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto suffice or is there another source of reference?

The Communist Manifesto really doesn't address how a socialist society would function—Marx and Engels purposely avoided discussing such matters and primarily focused their attention on critiquing capital. The Manifesto basically outlines the materialist conception of history, criticizes various strands of Utopian socialist thought, and provides a very broad program for communist parties to consider adopting. The most Marx ever wrote about socialism can be found in his Critique of the Gotha Programme.

If you're interested in detailed proposals of how a socialist mode of production could function, I recommend the following titles:

The Labor-Managed Economy by Jaroslav Vanek (from a market syndicalist perspective).
The Political Economy of Participatory Economics by Albert & Hahnel (from a syndicalist perspective).
Towards a New Socialism by Cockshott & Cottrell (from a cybernetic perspective).

If you're more interested in the political philosophy of socialism, however, consider the following works:

What is Property?: An Inquiry Into the Principle of Right and of Government by Pierre-Joseph Proudhon.
The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin.
Economic & Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844 by Karl Marx.

I was about to make another thread regarding to China's adoption of capitalist policies, though I'm unsure whether to post this under Reactionary or Questions.


We touched on that topic here, but feel free to start a thread on the subject if you'd like. If you're writing the thread from a reactionary (i.e., anti-socialist) perspective, it would best be placed in the 'Reactionaries' sub-forum, otherwise the 'Questions' sub-forum is fine.

Also to avoid misunderstandings in the future, what would you considered as "Subversive" or Reactionary?

Any post which can be considered anti-socialist in some capacity would be subversive, and therefore best suited for the 'Opposing Views' forums. Examples of such views are: praising Lockean property theory, attempting to justify the existence of a bourgeois class, advocating class collaborationism, etc.

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"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Rebel Redneck 59 on Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:01 pm

Kaiser_Monsopiad wrote:Nice to see that there are ones out there who shares the same belief. While I do endorse in National Socialism, I don't quite follow Hitler's ideas and systems. His systems were meant for Germans and consequently, the Europeans. Though it is highly unsuitable for Asian or Islamic derivatives. Also, much of his vision consists of expansionism which I find obsolete and irrelevant to contemporary issues.
Anyway, have you heard about the LNSGP before?
Hope to hear much from you again.

I see. Well since you wrote something about Hitler in your first post, I assumed you were a follower of his ideas. But since you arent, I stand corrected. As for the LNSGP, are you talking about the Libertarian National Socialist Green Party? If you are then yes I have read something about them before.

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Re: Just a from a fellow.

Post by Kaiser_Monsopiad on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:16 am

TheocWulf
Tempting, but I think its best for me to formulate a suitable version of National Socialism for south east Asians. Strasserism wasn't exactly meant for non-Europeans as I read it to be.

Celtiberian
Thanks for the needed info. Looks like I might be a long term denizen here after all.

Rebel Warrior 59
Indeed. While I can't say the LNSGP is a real political party or group rather than more of a think thank forum. It does guided me over years to grow an open mind acceptance towards any perspectives. Surprisingly enough, the forum turned out more Socialists and what was assumed.
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