Clarification on racial policy.

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Clarification on racial policy.

Post by Banach on Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:04 pm

So it's not completely clear to me what degree of racialism is or isnt allowed within the context of this forum/ideology. While I agree the rich are a problem and have acted independently to benefit themselves at the expense of everyone else, I'm not going to abandon or brainwash myself against my racial sentiment or other things I value for the sake of getting back at them. So for clarification.

1. Is racial or ethnic preservation/self segregation consistent with this forum? Are people who choose it respected instead of attacked as is currently done by the modern left?
2. Is putting heavy restrictions on immigration consistent with this forum?
3. Is the concept of native land consistent with this forum and does that impart a group ownership of it?

Also a perhaps bigger question is, how do you define nation? If one removes or completely devalues the dividing traits of humanity the worth of one nation over another becomes nonexistent, nationalism is inconsistent with such an ideology.


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Re: Clarification on racial policy.

Post by Celtiberian on Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:34 pm

Banach wrote:Is racial or ethnic preservation/self segregation consistent with this forum? Are people who choose it respected instead of attacked as is currently done by the modern left?

Racial and ethnic preservation are concerns unrelated to the stated objectives of the forum. One's decision to identify with and preserve their ethnic and/or racial group (or to abstain from doing so) is a personal matter. We respect the freedom of association, if that makes matters simpler.

It is only when racial identity manifests into outright racism—i.e., the denigration and/or advocacy of the oppression of people of other races—that we reprimand forum members.

Is putting heavy restrictions on immigration consistent with this forum?

We do not possess a unified stance on the subject. Some forum members argue for relatively strict immigration policies, while others favor a more permissive approach.

Is the concept of native land consistent with this forum and does that impart a group ownership of it?

The concept of a "native land" isn't consistent with reality, honestly. As is common knowledge at this point, the human species evolved in Africa and later migrated to the other continents of the earth. Virtually every extant nationality and ethnicity is a synthesis of previous nationalities and ethnicities. That isn't to say, however, that territorial conceptions of nationality are indefensible. Personally, I'm undecided on the matter. Proponents of the territorial principle are permitted on the forum, regardless.

Also a perhaps bigger question is, how do you define nation?

The nation is a relative community of character. To quote Otto Bauer,

". . . .it is a community of character because, in any given era, a range of corresponding characteristics can be observed among the great majority of the nation's members, and because, although all nations share a number of characteristics by virtue of their humanity, there is nevertheless a range of characteristics that are peculiar to each nation and distinguish it from other nations."
Otto Bauer, The Question of Nationalities and Social Democracy (Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press, 2000), p. 22.

These characteristics (e.g., language, customs, ethnicity) vary from one nation to another and the relative emphasis the population places on each also varies.

If one removes or completely devalues the dividing traits of humanity the worth of one nation over another becomes nonexistent, nationalism is inconsistent with such an ideology.

I sense (perhaps incorrectly) that you believe ethnicity is an integral, perhaps even crucial, component of nationality. I consider such a view erroneous, but we can discuss that elsewhere, if you'd like.

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"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
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Re: Clarification on racial policy.

Post by Banach on Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:41 am

I would but an even more relevant question is, is this forum still alive? You seem to be one of the few consistent posters. Does the admin even visit it anymore?

Perhaps the nature of the forum is what killed its chances at becoming popular in that the modern left gravitate to anti-national, frankly anti-white, anti-straight insanity while the racially aware white left goes to stormfront etc.

Moderation or reconciliation of ideological differences doesn't seem to be of interest, especially on the modern lefts side which is frankly driven by nuts.
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Re: Clarification on racial policy.

Post by Celtiberian on Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:43 pm

Banach wrote:I would but an even more relevant question is, is this forum still alive? You seem to be one of the few consistent posters. Does the admin even visit it anymore?

We discuss the issue at length here. As for the Admin, he is currently preoccupied with issues related to his family, but he will be returning to the forum once that is settled.

Perhaps the nature of the forum is what killed its chances at becoming popular in that the modern left gravitate to anti-national, frankly anti-white, anti-straight insanity while the racially aware white left goes to stormfront etc.

That's a premature judgement. Moreover, while the self-identified "left" in North America and Western Europe are largely cosmopolitan in orientation, they are too insignificant to care about at this juncture. (Admittedly, the nationalist left is also insignificant, but that's primarily due to a lack of activism. History indicates that our strategy, once implemented, should yield respectable results.)

Regarding Stormfront, it is a bastion of the North American conspiratorial, reactionary right. It's essentially just a racist version of PrisonPlanet.com. The false consciousness that pervades on such sites is truly astounding. Even if you decide not register on this forum, I encourage you to avoid cesspools like those.

Moderation or reconciliation of ideological differences doesn't seem to be of interest, especially on the modern lefts side which is frankly driven by nuts.

I respect their refusal to compromise their principles for the sake of opportunistic gain, despite considering said principles absurd.

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"The dogma of human equality is no part of Communism . . . the formula of Communism: 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs', would be nonsense, if abilities were equal."
—J. B. S. Haldane Hammer Sickle

"Nationality. . . is a historic, local fact which, like all real and harmless facts, has the right to claim general acceptance. . . Every people, like every person, is involuntarily that which it is and therefore has a right to be itself. . . Nationality is not a principle; it is a legitimate fact, just as individuality is. Every nationality, great or small, has the incontestable right to be itself, to live according to its own nature. This right is simply the corollary of the general principle of freedom."
—Mikhail Bakunin Red Star
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Re: Clarification on racial policy.

Post by Rev Scare on Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:54 pm

I do not particularly care what brand of Kulturkampf one champions, but the class struggle is of paramount importance. It is of little concern to me whether someone wishes to associate primarily with one ethnic or racial group as opposed to another, whether one views homosexuality as a perversion, whether one clings to antiquated gender roles, or what have you. That is all permitted in a free and just society, as it is perfectly acceptable to disapprove of lifestyles and behaviors that we find offensive or immoral, or for any reason. This is something that is ignored in capitalism's stifling culture of political correctness, where conformity to its corporate standards of etiquette is mandated.

However, the political manifestation of such views, to the extent that they advocate the oppression, discrimination, exploitation, or defamation of any group of people, is unacceptable on this forum and from the perspective of revolutionary socialist activism. With respect to the national question in particular, chauvinism and imperialism of any kind are incompatible with the left-wing nationalism propounded on this site, as is a platform that forsakes the class struggle in favor of collaboration with the national ruling class. It is one matter to identity with a community of character, the nation, and call for its preservation as well as its relative autonomy, but it is quite another to use this as a basis for reactionary campaigns against other nationalities or ethnic groups.

Of course, we are not idealists, as we fully comprehend the material origins of racism, ethnic chauvinism, and so forth, which is why our non-reactionary nationalism is inextricably linked to the overthrow of capitalism and the transformation of society toward communism.

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