Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

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Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Red Guerilla on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:09 am

I am wondering what are the different tendencies and political ideologies that fall in the realm of left-wing nationalist-socialism. I'm in the midst of what I could sum up as an "ideological crisis." I know that my personal politics fall somewhere on that line, but I can't seem to find a tendency that I align with.
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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by DSN on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:32 am

Just so you know, 'left-wing nationalist-socialism' is a bit of a mouthful, and 'left-wing nationalism' will do just fine. As I have said, trying to find a label straight off the bat shouldn't be your primary objective. There aren't any specific socialist tendencies which are compatible with left-wing nationalism as you may believe with certain people shouting that socialists like Marx were anti-nationalists. The only exception would maybe be something like Left Communism, which apparently rejects many other socialist tendencies on the basis of being 'too nationalist'. If I were you, I would just relax with the tendency quest, and focus more on the bigger picture of socialism. What have you covered thus far in terms of reading?

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Red Aegis on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:34 am

In my opinion it is just more about self-determination of different groups and allowing them to make their own decisions on government without forcing people to conform to a wider degree than if another group were to force a joining of governance.

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Red Aegis on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:36 am

DSN wrote:The only exception would maybe be something like Left Communism, which apparently rejects many other socialist tendencies on the basis of being 'too nationalist'.

To be fair that isn't really what Left Communism is. Left Communism is a broad range of views and if I remember correctly Bordiga upheld national self-determination for a time. I may be wrong.

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Red Guerilla on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:47 pm

DSN wrote:Just so you know, 'left-wing nationalist-socialism' is a bit of a mouthful, and 'left-wing nationalism' will do just fine. As I have said, trying to find a label straight off the bat shouldn't be your primary objective. There aren't any specific socialist tendencies which are compatible with left-wing nationalism as you may believe with certain people shouting that socialists like Marx were anti-nationalists. The only exception would maybe be something like Left Communism, which apparently rejects many other socialist tendencies on the basis of being 'too nationalist'. If I were you, I would just relax with the tendency quest, and focus more on the bigger picture of socialism. What have you covered thus far in terms of reading?

I'm sorry, it's just I'm use to the "cosmopolitan" definitions of socialism, that politics in this area are kind of confusing to me hence my crisis. However, I'm sorry for stressing labels. So far I have read Marx, communist manifesto, civil war in France, and only a little bit of Das Kapital.
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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by DSN on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:53 pm

Red Aegis wrote:To be fair that isn't really what Left Communism is. Left Communism is a broad range of views and if I remember correctly Bordiga upheld national self-determination for a time. I may be wrong.

Ah right, it was just something I read on Wikipedia so I didn't take it too seriously. I thought I remembered the LeftComs on RevLeft being ultra internationalist as well though, but that's the last place anyone wants to look for learning about socialism. Didn't you purchase a book on Left Communism a while ago?

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by DSN on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:09 pm

Red Guerilla wrote:I'm sorry, it's just I'm use to the "cosmopolitan" definitions of socialism, that politics in this area are kind of confusing to me hence my crisis. However, I'm sorry for stressing labels.

It's fine. I learnt most of the basics about socialism from RevLeft which totally distorted my perception of nationalism and internationalism, so I know where you're coming from. A lot of people stress labels nowadays because the left has been turned into a salad bar just like every other political/economic standpoint, but it's an inevitable path that politics go down over time.

So far I have read Marx, communist manifesto, civil war in France, and only a little bit of Das Kapital.

That's a good start. I'd say maybe go for something like Bukharin and Preobrazhensky's The ABC of Communism if you're fairly new to socialism. After that, popular works like Lenin's The State and Revolution are always a good read. They were aimed at the workers of the time and written so that they would be easy for people to understand which was a big plus for me when I was new to the left (and politics in general). Something on the more libertarian/anarchist side of socialism by Proudhon, Bakunin or Kropotkin is also worth looking at just to gain an even perspective on the question of the organisation of the working class.

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Red Guerilla on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Thank you for the suggestions, hopefully with time and study my confusion will subside. I am beginning to make sense of how socialism and left-wing nationalism, are basically synonyms. I am just too used to the cosmopolitan definition of nationalism.
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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by DSN on Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:43 pm

Red Guerilla wrote:Thank you for the suggestions, hopefully with time and study my confusion will subside. I am beginning to make sense of how socialism and left-wing nationalism, are basically synonyms. I am just too used to the cosmopolitan definition of nationalism.

Well, socialism isn't necessarily nationalist, but you get the idea. I hope the reading goes well for you. In the meantime, don't hesitate to join in on discussions and ask questions.

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by capitalism_collapse on Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:07 pm

Thanks also from myself to DSN for the book suggestions as I'll keep these in mind too.

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Scarlet-Left on Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:13 pm

If I were you (or anyone in a state of ideological crisis), rather than focus on labels (which often come with a lot of unnecessary baggage), I'd focus on as few or as many basic principles. Decide what is fundamentally important to you and you're ideology will spring from that.

To be more clear. If an American was very concerned with his second amendment rights and very opposed to same-sex marriage (but didn't have very strong views on many other issues) he'd gradually become a conservative-libertarian because his association with people who feel the same way as he does (conservative-libertarians) would result in the rest of his ideology sliding into place.

So, lock down what things are of the greatest importance to you (and recognise what issues you are either open to compromise on or generally disinterested in) and, through association with people who agree with you, your political identity will begin to emerge.

We live in the twenty-first century which means that pretty much any ideology that could exist does exist, and there's always room for movement in any political group (most have a left-wing, a right-wing, single-issue subgroups, alternative currents and isolated outlying personalities).

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Re: Tendencies in the realm of Left-Wing Nationalist-Socialism

Post by Social Corporatist on Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:54 am

National Socialism, without the Hitlerism, ethnic chauvinism, etc. can be safely called Left-Wing Nationalism.
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