Socialism Vs Blue Collar Outlook

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Re: Socialism Vs Blue Collar Outlook

Post by Rebel Redneck 59 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:42 am

Red Aegis wrote:Celtiberian pointed out that they do when they are talking to the general population. Look at the Communist Manifesto and compare it to this part of Capital vol. 1. They are written differently for different audiences.

Good point. I still stand by many books by Socialists being hard to read though.

It is not a revolutionary mindset since it doesn't cause the person to want to change class relations in the way that I'm talking about. It is; however, a good mindset. Race should never be used to divide people of anything and wanting it to is reactionary. Again, Celtiberian mentioned this. In regards to your base contention above, I know plenty of working people that work with their hands that are disgusted with racism in any real sense, most certainly they are against institutionalizing it. They may enjoy a racist joke now and again but that doesn't make them racist.

Ok then can you tell me why class should be used to divide instead of race? I mean revolutionary socialists like yourself want to overthrow the capitalist system so its obvious your all for using class to divide people, so honestly whats so special about class only? Dont get me wrong Im not saying class shouldnt be used to divide, cause it already does, but why only it? Why not simply support anything that divides ? I mean thats one thing that gets me about political ideologies is that they always pick and choose. Their main focus is always on only one thing ( whether it be individual rights, class, race etc). Why not have many different focuses? And yes sure there are blue collar workers who are anti racist but they dont really have the old school blue collar mindset.

I think that it is a much smaller part than you are making it out to be. I think that familial fidelity is a much larger part as well as self-reliance and decency. All of these things would be easier to maintain and foster under Socialism.


Your right that thats a part too but so is partying and all the good stuff. Really the family and values stuff is for the settled blue collar people. Younger ones are often more into rowdiness and drinking.

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Re: Socialism Vs Blue Collar Outlook

Post by Red Aegis on Tue Sep 18, 2012 3:47 am

Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Good point. I still stand by many books by Socialists being hard to read though.

Yup, but I think that we have established that such does not mean that socialists are out of touch on that end.

Ok then can you tell me why class should be used to divide instead of race? I mean revolutionary socialists like yourself want to overthrow the capitalist system so its obvious your all for using class to divide people, so honestly whats so special about class only? Dont get me wrong Im not saying class shouldnt be used to divide, cause it already does, but why only it? Why not simply support anything that divides ? I mean thats one thing that gets me about political ideologies is that they always pick and choose. Their main focus is always on only one thing ( whether it be individual rights, class, race etc). Why not have many different focuses? And yes sure there are blue collar workers who are anti racist but they dont really have the old school blue collar mindset.

Well, the point is to get rid of class actually. Here I'll quote Marx from one of his letters:

Marx wrote: ... And now as to myself, no credit is due to me for discovering the existence of classes in modern society or the struggle between them. Long before me bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this class struggle and bourgeois economists, the economic economy of the classes. What I did that was new was to prove: (1) that the existence of classes is only bound up with particular historical phases in the development of production (historische Entwicklungsphasen der Production), (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat,[1] (3) that this dictatorship itself only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society .

Your right that thats a part too but so is partying and all the good stuff. Really the family and values stuff is for the settled blue collar people. Younger ones are often more into rowdiness and drinking.

I don't see why it is necessary to embrace that explicitly, honestly.

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Re: Socialism Vs Blue Collar Outlook

Post by Rebel Redneck 59 on Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:13 pm

Red Aegis wrote:
Rebel Warrior 59 wrote:Good point. I still stand by many books by Socialists being hard to read though.

Yup, but I think that we have established that such does not mean that socialists are out of touch on that end.

Ok then can you tell me why class should be used to divide instead of race? I mean revolutionary socialists like yourself want to overthrow the capitalist system so its obvious your all for using class to divide people, so honestly whats so special about class only? Dont get me wrong Im not saying class shouldnt be used to divide, cause it already does, but why only it? Why not simply support anything that divides ? I mean thats one thing that gets me about political ideologies is that they always pick and choose. Their main focus is always on only one thing ( whether it be individual rights, class, race etc). Why not have many different focuses? And yes sure there are blue collar workers who are anti racist but they dont really have the old school blue collar mindset.

Well, the point is to get rid of class actually. Here I'll quote Marx from one of his letters:

Marx wrote: ... And now as to myself, no credit is due to me for discovering the existence of classes in modern society or the struggle between them. Long before me bourgeois historians had described the historical development of this class struggle and bourgeois economists, the economic economy of the classes. What I did that was new was to prove: (1) that the existence of classes is only bound up with particular historical phases in the development of production (historische Entwicklungsphasen der Production), (2) that the class struggle necessarily leads to the dictatorship of the proletariat,[1] (3) that this dictatorship itself only constitutes the transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society .

Your right that thats a part too but so is partying and all the good stuff. Really the family and values stuff is for the settled blue collar people. Younger ones are often more into rowdiness and drinking.

I don't see why it is necessary to embrace that explicitly, honestly.

Your right. This did bring up some more questions but Ill save them for another thread ( or maybe even forget about them).


Well really its a question of pride. I mean truth is society is becoming a hard place for a blue collar worker to fit into. Its probably going to go down even more on that road in the coming years. Not only are blue collar jobs going into thin air and not only is everyone made to think that oh college and education are the best fucking things ever, the lifestyle itself is getting ruined. I mean whats with all these dumbass smoking laws coming up over Europe ( in many more countries you cant even smoke in a bar) for example? By making these laws their making more people stay at home, in other words ruining bar life, which means their taking a stab at blue collar people. I mean the bar has always been a big part of blue collar life and fucking with it is fucking with the people who go to it itself. Anyways my point is rough, crude, rowdy yet simple and honest ways are getting pushed to the side in favor of suit and tie ones. And that is why they should be ( as you said) embraced. Show the finger in the face of the arrogant scum who think they can just get away with their bullcrap. Sadly there isnt anything like an open rebellion yet.

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